OldUnreal (Engine)

In the entire Unreal world the guys who could guide this best are sitting right here. You want to prod CliffyB to take notice? Build it for him.

I'm serious, make a small demo in the style that you'd love to see. There are discussions of this article all over but it's just talk. You guys are the godfathers of Na Pali. Build a demo of what we want, post it to him, and let's see if it generates any excitement. There won't be much actual 'work', just some good level design (you know you have unpolished gems hiding that the world has never seen, bring one out!), a bit of scripting, and some really good craftsmanship.

It doesn't have to function perfectly, think of it more as 'this is what I'd want' coming from the group that would know better than anyone.

I'm probably one of those rare people who did enjoy Unreal II.  That said though my biggest issue with Unreal II is that it really wasn't Unreal II.  It was a game based in the Unreal universe that had nothing to do with the original Unreal.  It felt like it was just a bunch of mini single player games patched together with a simple storyline and some Unreal creatures chucked in for good measure!
When Unreal II was revealed I think everyone was expecting a true sequel to Unreal rather than some unrelated game based within the same universe!  That was it's biggest downfall.

That being said, apart from the Skaarj and the passing reference to the Liandri tournament and Na Pali in the tutorial, there's nothing very Unreal in there... But even this could be disregarded. The problem is : neither the story nor the gameplay turned ot to be compelling enough to grant it the title of good game : it's story is average at best and the gameplay is really sub-par, especially considering that Unreal was always more of a Fast FPS. For this, a complete and successful multiplayer mode would have been welcomed, but though UXMp was great, it didn't take.

Ah, now those are different issues altogether. The issue with it not being very much related to Unreal, while true on the release day, is no longer that valid. Don't forget that it was Unreal II that introduced the Corporation Wars to begin with, and a lot of Assault maps in UT2004 were based on that idea. So while it's true that it doesn't tie so much with the first game, it does tie into the series as a whole. Hence why in my opinion, the best part of the game lore-wise was the overview of the corporations. And don't forget that UT3 was related to other games to a quite similar degree as Unreal II was. Plus the whole Unreal Championship business. This fragmented view of the universe is more or less the modus operandi at this point.

As for Unreal II being not as good as other games in the Unreal series, of course, I agree. Just that the Unreal series as a whole has been extremely good. UT2004 has an aggregated score of 93/100 and a user score of 9/10, that's just amazing. That warrants it a place in the top 20 highest rated PC games of all time.

I don't really see why there is a Reboot vs. Remake debate at all

Well, this question most likely stems from the fact that Cliff used the word in the article there. Most likely he didn't mean to, though.

In the entire Unreal world the guys who could guide this best are sitting right here. You want to prod CliffyB to take notice? Build it for him.

I'm serious, make a small demo in the style that you'd love to see. There are discussions of this article all over but it's just talk. You guys are the godfathers of Na Pali. Build a demo of what we want, post it to him, and let's see if it generates any excitement. There won't be much actual 'work', just some good level design (you know you have unpolished gems hiding that the world has never seen, bring one out!), a bit of scripting, and some really good craftsmanship.

It doesn't have to function perfectly, think of it more as 'this is what I'd want' coming from the group that would know better than anyone.

I think this needs repeating:

Going on another point of GreatEmerald's as well, in relation to folk getting together on a sequel, is the biggest reason why I'm primarily working on Legacy by myself.  By working on it myself I decide alone how I want it to turn out rather than getting bogged down with arguements and hissyfits because fellow contributors get upset if it's not done their way which in the end kills enthuiasim and kills the project.

Don't forget that it was Unreal II that introduced the Corporation Wars to begin with, and a lot of Assault maps in UT2004 were based on that idea. So while it's true that it doesn't tie so much with the first game, it does tie into the series as a whole.

But that was already mentioned in Unreal Tournament...

Me, I wouldn't start a fan-made sequel to Unreal. I don't want anything in particular, and though I appreciate the idea of a sandbox Unreal, I'd take a sequel whatever its style (it could be a survival,exploration,sandbox,linear game, anything really). It would be so hard to come to a conclusion about what Unreal really is about (except shooting moving things) that we'd have a forum civil war way before we get a project going, so I don't think fans are the best people to make a sequel. Someone has to take charge. There is nothing we could do best than Epic themselves.
Except UT3.

I'm another one that enjoyed playing Unreal II. It wasn't as bad as others make it seem. I think it was just a matter of their expectations, wanting a continuation of the original. All things considered it was a mostly well designed game, and fun to play. It added some new game play ideas, which enhanced the game for the most part. It was a noble attempt to keep the Unreal world alive. It was the community that dropped the ball.

:-/

I actually did enjoy Unreal 2 at the time it came out, but I didn't actually play through Unreal yet, only the first couple of levels since I was pretty young. It wasn't until I was older that I really played through Unreal and was amazed by it.

Well Cliffy has left Epic now... so does this spell doom for any possible resurgence for the Unreal franchise.

I'd like to speculate that he left due to Epic's lack of interest for a new Unreal 'adventure' game. Maybe he'll start his own studio then Epic can sub-contract out to his studio to make a new Unreal game, like a 'true' sequel!

Fingers crossed if something like that happens!

Well Cliffy has left Epic now... so does this spell doom for any possible resurgence for the Unreal franchise.

I'd like to speculate that he left due to Epic's lack of interest for a new Unreal 'adventure' game.  Maybe he'll start his own studio then Epic can sub-contract out to his studio to make a new Unreal game, like a 'true' sequel! 

Fingers crossed if something like that happens! 

I think Cliffy B left because Epic was more Focused on Gears of War than Unreal. Atleast I hope that's why Cliffy B left. Maybe Cliffy B will start his own Company and Resurrect Unreal and Continue making Unreal Singleplayer Games or maybe Cliffy B could get Bethesda to help him, because everyone knows that Bethesda is Great at Open World Sandbox Games especially RPGs.

No, it doesn't work that way. Epic Games holds the rights to Unreal. If Cliff was to create his own game, it couldn't even be called Unreal any more. Unless they transferred the rights, but that is very unlikely to happen.

No, it doesn't work that way. Epic Games holds the rights to Unreal. If Cliff was to create his own game, it couldn't even be called Unreal any more. Unless they transferred the rights, but that is very unlikely to happen.

And yet Legend Entertainment created Unreal 2. Cliffy B was there for the Birth of Unreal if it wasn't for Cliffy B Unreal wouldn't be what it is and I bet he owns the Rights to it

Cliff Bleszinski was just a mapper at that time, the rights for the game are all Epic's.

And Legend did Unreal 2 because Epic wanted them to and because they did RTNP for Epic as well. They were a partner, just like DE.

Cliff Bleszinski was just a mapper at that time, the rights for the game are all Epic's.

And Legend did Unreal 2 because Epic wanted them to and because they did RTNP for Epic as well. They were a partner, just like DE.

yes he was mapper but he was still there when they brought the game to life and he probably did buy the rights to unreal after years of working with Epic.

Again, it doesn't work that way. Legend were given the license for a single time (I know there's a legal term for that, something like "limited exclusive right"), and even then only under the direct supervision of Epic Games. They had the last word - if it hadn't been good enough, they could have stopped Legend from distributing it.

It is possible for Epic to give the same right to Cliff or his company, but once again it would have to be under the direct supervision of Epic Games.

and he probably did buy the rights to unreal after years of working with Epic.

It would be pretty amazing if Cliffy bought the rights to Unreal, and I doubt he has the cash to buy such a huge license, especially since the Unreal name is the most important stuff Epic ever created and owned, is in the name of the millions-of-dollar-worth engine and the SDK which is now becoming one the best and most common developping tool, is a world-wide recognized logo and name and brings in loads of cash even when the game under the title is mediocre.

Your suggestion that Cliffy somehow bought this from Epic is so far-fetched I cannot even wrap my mind around it. I mean what ?

Again, it doesn't work that way. Legend were given the license for a single time (I know there's a legal term for that, something like "limited exclusive right"), and even then only under the direct supervision of Epic Games. They had the last word - if it hadn't been good enough, they could have stopped Legend from distributing it.

It is possible for Epic to give the same right to Cliff or his company, but once again it would have to be under the direct supervision of Epic Games.

What doesn't work that way? If Cliffy B bought the Rights to Unreal then he owns Unreal Plain and Simple and ok Legend Entertainment was given the rights to make Unreal 2 but it still doesn't count as an Epic Game because Epic has only made 1 Unreal Singleplayer game and that is Unreal 1. Epic cannot take Credit for a game that they did not make. 14 Years we have waited for Epic to make a Unreal Singleplayer game and they have not delivered.

It would be pretty amazing if Cliffy bought the rights to Unreal, and I doubt he has the cash to buy such a huge license, especially since the Unreal name is the most important stuff Epic ever created and owned, is in the name of the millions-of-dollar-worth engine and the SDK which is now becoming one the best and most common developping tool, is a world-wide recognized logo and name and brings in loads of cash even when the game under the title is mediocre.

Your suggestion that Cliffy somehow bought this from Epic is so far-fetched I cannot even wrap my mind around it. I mean what ?

Anything is possible with Money.

No it's not possible, because Unreal is the trademark of Epic Games, and because the name is in their engine and in their games. If they don't have that, Epic has nothing to sell.

Technically, it is a game by Epic, they invented the Unreal franchise (a jewel of a game!) and Legend did a sequel, licensed by Epic and of course they had restrictions concerning artistic freedom, they probably told them to do this, that and this like that. Otherwise Legend could have done something entirely different and name it Unreal II.

And no, not everything is possible with money. It can't make me move stuff via thoughts (yet).
Other than that, the license for Unreal must be so damn expensive by now that no person can afford it, not even someone who probably gained millions with a popular cover-based third person shooter with steroid-monkeys.
It just doesn't pay off, why invest into a license for a game that nobody even seems to know these days and waste your pretty, luxurious life this way? You would have to regain all that money again while you could just enjoy your life with it and make some other brand new franchises once in a while, just letting the creativity flow into the computer as a hobby, without any worries about money.

At least, I believe that was one of the reasons why Cliff left Epic. I bet he has enough money to just retire and make games as a hobby whenever he feels like doing so.

No it's not possible, because Unreal is the trademark of Epic Games, and because the name is in their engine and in their games. If they don't have that, Epic has nothing to sell.

The only thing Epic has been Selling Recently is Gears of War Epic has made more money off that Franchise because the Console people. Epic gets more Money off Xbox 360 and PS3 than they do from PC Epic has sold the PC Community Out the only 2 games Epic makes is Unreal Tournament and Gears of War. People have been waiting for Unreal 3 and they have not delivered a Third Unreal Singleplayer game.

Epic's main income comes from licensing the engine. The Engine is called Unreal Engine. The Unreal Engine logo is splashed on everything remotely linked to Epic. All these console games and all these non-Unreal games use the Unreal Engine, whose name is one of the most widespread and known engine name. Without the Unreal Licence, Epic would have to rebrand everything they have done so far and market the engine anew. Selling the rights to use this name makes absolutely no sense. None.

Epic's main income comes from licensing the engine. The Engine is called Unreal Engine. The Unreal Engine logo is splashed on everything remotely linked to Epic. All these console games and all these non-Unreal games use the Unreal Engine, whose name is one of the most widespread and known engine name. Without the Unreal Licence, Epic would have to rebrand everything they have done so far and market the engine anew. Selling the rights to use this name makes absolutely no sense. None.

Gamers don't care about the Engine All we care about is playing the game.

I was responding about the Idea that Cliffy might buy the Unreal license, not about playing games.

I was responding about the Idea that Cliffy might buy the Unreal license, not about playing games.

Maybe Cliffy B is able to make 1 more Unreal game maybe he has decided to take a Break from Epic to Figure out what he wants to do for this Unreal game.

The Title of this Topic is (Cliffy B Likes the idea of an open-world Reboot of Unreal.)

Maybe Cliffy B has the Opportunity to make this but he needs time to think about it or maybe he is on Vacation.

That would be great, but unfortunately, I see CliffyB leaving Epic as a definitive decision. This might not be true, but there wouldn't be so much noise around this if he was just taking a break, IMHO. As for an Unreal Game... I think everybody needs to be reminded that he never said he would do such a thing, but that if he was to make an Unreal game, that's how he would go about it. To me, this never implied it was an ongoing project or even something he considered.

He also just got married a few months ago. I think he's going to take some time to enjoy his new bride, and his small fortune. I think his recent marriage is a big part of him leaving. A wife can change a man's life in many ways.

If I were him, I would now dedicate my fortune to accomplish what is really important in the life of a man : the building of my own personal pyramid.

If I were him, I would now dedicate my fortune to accomplish what is really important in the life of a man : the building of my own personal pyramid.

...IN SPACE!