RoninMastaFX here

[[RUFX]RoninMastaFX]

Hello everyone. I'm not in a very particular good mood atm. 99% of the time I have no problem with the UT scene, except one in every 3 years or so.

I have some explaining to do about these "betas" that I own, and it's time that I explain myself now.

People are getting pissed off at me, people are anxiously waiting for betas, people are waiitign for betas, and it goes on forever! First of all, yues, I do own every single Unreal/UT/UT2003/Unreal 2 beta/alpha ever made, but still...I didn't expect it to start nor end this way.

As of now, I refuse to release them publicly, only privately. I don't care two fucks about my fucking 10 year contract shit, I don't give a bloddy fuck! If you want the ebtas/alphas, email me or add me via msn: I will not risk getting sued by Epic/DE, legal or not.

Now, I have even more explaining to do, which I'm proud to do.

First of all, Leo.T.C.K., I apologize that you are pissed off at me, I really am. Infact, you are a great friend, and I have helped you in many tough times. I consider you an ally to turn to for help. I really do. However, what what you don't know and other possible except GreatEmerald is that 2 days after I got all my betas back form my friends 2 weeks ago approx., I had a basement flood, destroying 90-95% of them. This also explains 3 holes in the basement wall (anger manegment).Yes, I am an Unreal Collector, and yes I was uber pissed. What I was pissed off about more or less is the proof is gone, so now no proof, emanign you won't believe me. FML! Also, to those, before you say anything else, just remmeber, Great Emerals psoted all of this beta shit WITHOUT MY PROPER PERMISSION. I had jsut moved in 2 dasy after he tried to ask em, and he peruaded me.

This in turn brings me to my next person: Great Emerald

GE, you're also a great guy, I only knew you personally for maybe 2-3 weeks, and personally, ahve taught me alot. Like Leo>T.C.K., you are an ally, a guy I can turn t for advice and for backup...but, you possibly gave a 10 year veteran a bad image, for not releasng the betas properly. First of all, when I said yes to yu leaking them, I said for you to do it the proper way man. Your obsession with these betas is slowly eating away my rep, and for that, I don't knwo what to do/say. I love this scene with a passion, I love you guys like best friends (not in a gay way, of course. ^^ ), but I cannot think of one person who I hate in the UT scene. Maybe a few I dislike, but not compeltely hate (not Leo.TCK and you GE, but others from the past, ~2001-2002. But that was a LONG time ago, and I have gotten over it since then.

All I ask of you OldUnrealers....please, her my plea: I did not mean to cause harm here in any way/shape/form, and if I did, then lease accept my greatest apologies ever! I would never try to shaft the Unreal scene, even if my life depended on it. I would also not start a hoax, I'm not that kind of person. ^^

I do want to say I am greatly sorry to all for this "hyper-activity" (pardon the speech impediment ^^), but I assure you, the betas may not be public as of right now, but the betas I do have, will be private. I know that the legal issues of this are bubblign with with flame wars and anger issues, but I can tell you no more legal issues will be needed. Only private.

Remember, for the betas that I have backups for, you'll get privatly. It just depends on which one I have left from the flood. ^^

Also, last word, I wanted to apologize again. I am very sorry for an inconvenience ths has caused. I am just a little upset at GreatEmerald atm.

Also, please, pardon the typos, I do not type well when I need to type exactly what I think. ^^

You guys are my life, even though I'm only 19, and all I ask aside form the other plea: forgive me. If you choose nto to, I will 100% accept your decidision, that also includes if you do choose to forgive me.

I am probably going to loose a lot of rep for this, but knowing me, I probably deserve it...one way or another.......

P.S. I am very sorry for the admins here at OldUnreal for this. I respect this place a lot, and I greatly apologize. If you like, you may ban me...I probably deserve it anyway.

Take care everyone. It is ok if you don't forgive me, I will respect your decisiion. Perhaps this is my time to retire, although I really don't want to. Only time will tell what will happen to this issue.

NOTE: Yes, I still have betas and alphas, but just not as many. I still have maybe 10% of them or so left from backups and copies that weren't destroyed by the flood.

[[]KAOS[]Casey]

Code: Select all

I will not risk getting sued by Epic/DE, legal or not.

may want to delete part of this post, then :x

[GreatEmerald]

Wait, what? I mean, what the? I asked if it was OK to post details, and you said it was OK. I thought you had all the legal issues solved already when I posted that... And then it appeared that they weren't. Also, the fact that most of the betas were destroyed doesn't mean that there aren't replacements - DE and Epic should also have these. So with proper diplomacy and explanations, it is possible that we could get backups from them or that they would be released by Epic/DE themselves - either way everyone wins.
And I never understood what Epic really replied to you... If they were working on solving some kind of legal issues (what kind anyway?), and if I understood correctly, when they will be solved (you said maybe around November or early next year), they can go public.

And the public simply needs to know the truth - betas do exist, and we can persuade Epic/DE to give us permission to release them. They are very valuable for the community, and from the interest in the posts that we see here we can assume that betas could renew the interest in Unreal series games altogether. So that way companies don't lose anything - actually, it's the other way, that means more Unreal Anthology purchases and more money for them. In Unreal II forums on BUF, there already are several people who are prepared to buy Anthology because of their original discs scratched/lost etc. So it's a gain for everyone. It doesn't cost anything for Epic to release or at least give permission to release those betas.

And finally, I have to notice the change... You don't sound like yourself here... When we talked on XFire yesterday, there were no signs of you planning to write something like this... What made you post this, anyway?

[Gizzy]

It seems understandable that Epic would want to keep these Betas/Alphas/Prototypes/Previews/Tech Demos close to their chest when they were reluctant to give Smirftsch the Unreal Source Code. The betas would be very available if they were made public, whereas the Source is kept under wraps by Smirf himself.

[[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ]

I don't get it why don't they even release the source or whatever...who would abuse such an old code? Or just the binaries? This leaves me with a giant WTF, just at windows 95 which I wanted to install to my virtual PC but is not open source. BUT WHY? It's from another millenium, if I made it, I would make sure everyone carries the code on their shirts, not keep it under some license or some other fuzzy compression bullshit... I've never understood why some old things have to remain secret or whatever...

[GreatEmerald]

Their official position is that there are some parts of code which are identical to UE2/3's, and those are not to be opensourced...

[[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ]

Their official position is that there are some parts of code which are identical to UE2/3's, and those are not to be opensourced...

Release half?

[Hellkeeper]

Their official position is that there are some parts of code which are identical to UE2/3's, and those are not to be opensourced...

Release half?

What would you do with half an engine ?
I always found this sad. Releasing an engine is the only way for it to have any use 10 years after it's release. Quake Engines are open sourced up to Quake 3 (1999, so yeah, 10 years now), and there are still non-commercial games being made with them (not to speak about the different reworks of the engines, cf DarkPlace for Quake 1).

[[]KAOS[]Casey]

The thing is, if they released the source code they could have a major competitor from their OWN code in just a few years time.

However, releasing betas that are not built in debug mode, and are from 10+ years ago are NO threat at all to them. It's a matter of public relations then. If they want to look good in the hardcore fans eyes, they will release them. But if they want to be seen as cold hearted bastards who will keep something that's not worth anything to them, and cannot threaten them in any way.

The real qusetion is why don't they pick #1?

[Gizzy]

I'm more annoyed with the fact that Epic seem dead set on keeping the betas to themselves and not releasing them. They simply have no value and the code in their respective editors will be very outdated, so anything in Ued (Code wise) would be useless (But still cool to look at)

Releasing betas pros:

Very happy fans
Brings attention to the game (More sales?)
See all the cut stuff (Weapons, Monsters, Levels)
Possibility of old models brought to 227
Old models = New mods
Possibility for map conversions
Learn more about Unreal's history
Learn more about it's story

Releasing betas cons:
[/post]

[Hellkeeper]

The thing is, if they released the source code they could have a major competitor from their OWN code in just a few years time.

However, releasing betas that are not built in debug mode, and are from  10+ years ago are NO threat at all to them. It's a matter of public relations then. If they want to look good in the hardcore fans eyes, they will release them. But if they want to be seen as cold hearted bastards who will keep something that's not worth anything to them, and cannot threaten them in any way.

The real qusetion is why don't they pick #1?

So far, there has never been a Quake Engine fork powerful enough to really threaten id's current engine. As long as they don't release the one they are currently using, it'd be very hard to catch up the modern one. That's why id didn't released Q3's sources before Doom3's release.

But hey, it's a company they do what they want after all.

[GreatEmerald]

I'm more annoyed with the fact that Epic seem dead set on keeping the betas to themselves and not releasing them.

Actually, what makes you think they are like that? We don't have any reliable info on their opinion of the beta release. It might be that they simply forgot they had those betas and never thought they would be interesting, so they're just not aware of that. I believe that if we wrote a diplomatic letter (which includes all Gizzy's posted pros and some info on how much interest the idea generates as well as examples of Unreal's fan base and work being done to raise interest in U1/U2), they may as well consider it and at the very least state their position.

[Leo T_C_K]

Sorry didn't know you posted this..
Anyway I am not mad at you or something.