Residual Decay website down??

[Wastelander0101]

I checked the site, and it only went to beyond unreal. Anyone?

[Spike]

took me to beyond too.

[Jâçkrâßßit]

Beyond Unreal had a hacker DOS attack them last week (I think). In response to the attack, they upgraded their hardware leaving some content (i'm guessing) on the older machines. In a news post, they say "We've yet to move all of the hosted files and services back online, but that should be happening quite soon. As we promised last year, we've officially discontinued use of the long unsupported php4, so some hosted sites will experience difficulties in the transition."

residual decay site being one of those.

[Mister_Prophet]

Sorry for the bump, but just wanted to make sure the topic poster knows that the Red Nemesis website has been back up.

Oh, and first post

[DieHard SCWS]

For everybody goes, please post links to where stuff is to be found, so others can see and read what you are talking about !


To Mister Prophet, are you still unwilling to change [url=http://rednemesis.beyondunreal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=70]S3TC: How and Why[/url] page and include links to the UTRP project and download links to the S3TC textures ? After all, packages now are netcompatible.....


If needed you can grab links and info from this page: [url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Website/Articles/PlayingUT/Tweaking/S3TCInstallationUT/S3TCInstallationUT.htm]S3TC Installation Guide[/url]
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[Mister_Prophet]

To Mister Prophet, are you still unwilling to change [url=http://rednemesis.beyondunreal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=70]S3TC: How and Why[/url] page and include links to the UTRP project and download links to the S3TC textures ? After all, packages now are netcompatible.....
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It's not a question of net compatibility.

Your set, as I understand it, is not very compatible in terms of ambiguity. Many sets contain computer panels and things that include text that is specific of their Unreal locations. Like Vortex Rikers information or ISV Kran information. This is a problem for any mod that would want to encourage its base to use your textures. Because not every pack that uses a computer screen from PlayerShp intends for their map to display Vortex Rikers information. What if they are used in a level that isn't in the Vortex Rikers?

It's also a question purpose. Considering the amount of raw S3TC related work we are putting in the great many sets already being made specifically for Residual Decay...it seems unfairly daunting to ask our fanbase to download a 3rd party, unofficial file to enjoy our mod. All a player will need to enjoy Residual Decay is a retail copy of Unreal Tournament. If they happen to have your S3TC sets then that is their prerogative, since RD will enable S3TC anyway...and all Unreal/Unreal Tournament stock textures used are minimal to say the least, so it won't be noticable.

In short, the purpose of that page on our website is to make sure our users know how to enable S3TC on their games. Not to pimp outside projects that really have no relation to our mod. Perhaps at a later date, when we are closer to release, we will increase the URLs on our link page to contain more community items of relevance.  

[DieHard SCWS]

Appologises for the super late reply.

Your set, as I understand it, is not very compatible in terms of ambiguity. Many sets contain computer panels and things that include text that is specific of their Unreal locations. Like Vortex Rikers information or ISV Kran information. This is a problem for any mod that would want to encourage its base to use your textures. Because not every pack that uses a computer screen from PlayerShp intends for their map to display Vortex Rikers information. What if they are used in a level that isn't in the Vortex Rikers?

Its of course true if the textures are used in another setting. But on the other hand, people have a choice what textures they install, and those textures do not surface in multiple packages, but only oné, being the PlayrShp package. And those apply to only five textures out of 178 textures in that package. And the package itself is 145 mb out of 1.5 gigabyte of updates. And personally i think it goes too far to exclude it because of 5 textures out of 1500 Mb of updates, and another 425 Mb in the pipeline. In addition to that, in the same S3TC PlayrShp package from the 2nd UT cd oné of the screens mentions "Eat at Joey's".

In short, the purpose of that page on our website is to make sure our users know how to enable S3TC on their games. Not to pimp outside projects that really have no relation to our mod. Perhaps at a later date, when we are closer to release, we will increase the URLs on our link page to contain more community items of relevance.

I guess the thing that "bothers" me is, when you type S3TC in Google the RD site shows up on the 3rd place, which is a cool achievement in all respect. But because its at the 3rd place, it kinda sets people playing UT on the wrong foot. The site looks professional and provides good info and a how to. But therefore it kinda tricks people that theres nothing else for UT regarding S3TC textures aside the 2nd CD textures.


And to quote from the RD site:

If you haven't installed the S3TC textures, go ahead and do that now. This is a very important step, if skipped you'll see no difference even if everything else has been completed. S3TC textures are included on the second CDs for the original and GOTY Unreal Tournament releases. As mentioned before, Unreal Anthology owners are out of luck. Luckily there are some community maps that use custom texture packages that include high resolution textures for S3TC users.

That is just apaulling, what do you mean out of luck? For the record, the downloads from the UTRP project ALSO offers the [url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Website/Downloads/Textures/S3TCEpic/S3TCEpic.htm]2nd CD textures made by Epic[/url], just in case people dont wanna have the UTRP updates. But if they end up on the UTRP site, they will see theres tons more updates than the 2nd cd textures. And than you give people a choice. Let them decide whats cool to have and what not. But now, the 3rd ranked Google result bluntly tells people that have the Anthology boxset, sorry guys, theres no hope for you  :-/ . And looking at the forums from Beyond Unreal, than almost half of the people there only own that boxset and nothing else.  They dont have UT G.O.T.Y., which means you are leaving half the UT community in limbo......

Not to pimp outside projects that really have no relation to our mod.

Frankly, that remark kinda saddens me, cause we are all sailing on the same boat, and thats not your project, and not mine project but UT(and Unreal) and its community..........


As said, i think the high ranking on google does give a bit of responsibillity towards S3TC users or even better potential S3TC users, but thats just my 2 cents. I always hope that the textures i provide keep people in Unreal and UT, because people can show off with it, that theres no game worldwide (nor will there be in the next 5 years or more)that even comes close to the texture resolution we have. All that aside of course the offered eyecandy.


And even oné simple link to at least the UTRP project (preferably also to the URP project) would be nice seeing the Google ranking. And of course take off the remark about Anthology  :(


And dont get me wrong, i am not in any kind mad at you, i just am a strong believer that in old communities like Unreal and UT with a very limited amount of people and sites, we should help out eachother as best as we can. AND!, help players the best we can so they can enjoy their games to the Max. And stay using the games because of updates like my textures, and cool projects like yours.......
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[Jâçkrâßßit]

totally and undoubted agree with everything Diehard has to say here.  When I first read your reply Prophet I was thinking in my mind exactly what Diehard wrote here (well.. especially the last part in particular)

The UT/Unreal community as small as it is... Diehard has worked long and hard hours on this project and I think if your going to have a S3TC page that it should be mandatory that you have at least a link to the UnrealTexture site for that particular section.  I mean what the hell?  seriously?  are you that stubborn?



Last time I checked UnrealTexture had links to both XidiaGold and 7Bullets for download. (I actually downloaded them from his site the first time I ever played either of them).


edit:

http://unrealtexture.com/UT/Downloads/Maps/SinglePlayer/xidia.zip
http://unrealtexture.com/UT/Downloads/Maps/SinglePlayer/7bullets-umod.zip

yep.. I remember these links.. this is where I got them alright..

[Mister_Prophet]

From Diehard:

Its of course true if the textures are used in another setting. But on the other hand, people have a choice what textures they install, and those textures do not surface in multiple packages, but only oné, being the PlayrShp package. And those apply to only five textures out of 178 textures in that package. And the package itself is 145 mb out of 1.5 gigabyte of updates. And personally i think it goes too far to exclude it because of 5 textures out of 1500 Mb of updates, and another 425 Mb in the pipeline. In addition to that, in the same S3TC PlayrShp package from the 2nd UT cd oné of the screens mentions "Eat at Joey's".

But the 5 textures you mention are computer panel textures...and they get used significantly more than the others for a lot of packs. And I don't think you appreciate my larger point, in that RD uses sparingly from stock Unreal/UT texture packs. The fact that RD is heavily story driven...with a huge amount of effort put in over several years of development...to commit to environments that are very specific, I'm sorry to say that, yes, it is a big issue for us. Like I said earlier, we aim to expand our community linkage when we get closer to release...or perhaps after.

I hope you understand that RD is not intended to be simply another mappack. We're essentially releasing a SP component package with our game specifically for the community to utilize. And in the meantime, I'm not committing links to other projects that may conflict with ours, because frankly...we have to spare the effort to actually test those packs. It's not a question of providing links to sister projects, which we do in fact have on our site. It's a question of linking to something that might conflict with our mod. You understand? Texture replacing is a big issue. We would need to thoroughly go through the motions of testing your S3TC packs in our levels...which is something we don't have time for. That, and the computer panel issue...plus the fact that our dependence on Unreal stock textures is relatively small to begin with...well this alone is reason enough to suspend linkage for the moment. I hope you understand.

I take user friendliness very seriously. And in that sense your S3TC work is unusable for me or any of the maps in RD. That's not a criticism of the tremendous amount of work you have obviously put into your project. It's a criticism of how your project may potentially interfere with us presenting ours. I think your work will truly benefit those who want to play the mother game with enhancements. But it might actually ruin a room a player enters in RD when they walk past something and see a mistake.

From Diehard

I guess the thing that "bothers" me is, when you type S3TC in Google the RD site shows up on the 3rd place, which is a cool achievement in all respect. But because its at the 3rd place, it kinda sets people playing UT on the wrong foot. The site looks professional and provides good info and a how to. But therefore it kinda tricks people that theres nothing else for UT regarding S3TC textures aside the 2nd CD textures.

Uh? On this issue you have me at a complete loss. Putting UT players on the wrong foot? I fail to see how you make that connection. Our S3TC page merely informs people how to enable S3TC. Nothing more. How is that "tricking" anyone? The whole purpose of that page is to, as you said, "provide good info and how to".


From Diehard

That is just apaulling, what do you mean out of luck? For the record, the downloads from the UTRP project ALSO offers the 2nd CD textures made by Epic, just in case people dont wanna have the UTRP updates. But if they end up on the UTRP site, they will see theres tons more updates than the 2nd cd textures. And than you give people a choice. Let them decide whats cool to have and what not. But now, the 3rd ranked Google result bluntly tells people that have the Anthology boxset, sorry guys, theres no hope for you  :-/ . And looking at the forums from Beyond Unreal, than almost half of the people there only own that boxset and nothing else.  They dont have UT G.O.T.Y., which means you are leaving half the UT community in limbo......

Here's what you quoted from our page:

"If you haven't installed the S3TC textures, go ahead and do that now. This is a very important step, if skipped you'll see no difference even if everything else has been completed. S3TC textures are included on the second CDs for the original and GOTY Unreal Tournament releases. As mentioned before, Unreal Anthology owners are out of luck. Luckily there are some community maps that use custom texture packages that include high resolution textures for S3TC users. "

1. When it says "UA owners out of luck", we're referring to them not having access to the retail UT 2nd CD. Not that they can't have access to S3TC. You have a point about the wording, which I'll address in a moment.

2. Read the last sentence. The one you didn't put in bold. That more or less says it right there. We make it clear that the community can provide where the UA fails. Yeah, we don't mention specifics. But I already explained why.

But at the very least, I'll make an amendment to that page to reword it a little. I really wish you had brought that up in a separate issue, though. Because that's a completely different matter.

Please understand, this is not an issue about not supporting the community.

From Jackrabbit

The UT/Unreal community as small as it is... Diehard has worked long and hard hours on this project and I think if your going to have a S3TC page that it should be mandatory that you have at least a link to the UnrealTexture site for that particular section.  I mean what the hell?  seriously?  are you that stubborn?



Last time I checked UnrealTexture had links to both XidiaGold and 7Bullets for download. (I actually downloaded them from his site the first time I ever played either of them).

I don't think you grasp what I am saying. And I'd appreciate it if you don't lecture me on putting "long hours" into a project, okay? I'm not insulting his work or acting stingy for the sake of being stingy.

I think I've made my stance more than clear. You can download Xidia Gold and play it on UT and it won't do anything to contradict or alter anything in someone elses' project. Likewise, neither will RD. They are meant to be played outside of anyone elses' work and installing them will not interfere with someone elses' pack. Diehard's texture project will.

And for the last time, our S3TC page on the Red Nemesis website only exists to tell users how to enable it. I hope this helps.

[Mister_Prophet]

I've made a slight change to our S3TC page, although I feel that I should mention that it seems like you missed reading an entire paragraph...the page originally did make it clear that UA users have to search within the community for the retail 2nd disc textures (you only seemed to quote a later paragraph).

[GreatEmerald]

:-/ That sounds a LOT like what people say about why they don't use 227. Because it changes small parts of the world, that are usually not even noticed by a casual player, while enhancing the overall feel and look (S3TC)/stability (227). I don't see how a paragraph like this in the website could hurt RD players:

"The latest S3TC textures, available for all users of Unreal, Unreal Gold, Unreal Tournament and Unreal Tournament: GOTY, are available at http://www.unrealtexture.com/ . NOTE: While these and UT CD2 textures overall enhance the look of most maps, but the changes can also be too drastic for more delicate players. Use at your own risk."

And as you mentioned that "plus the fact that our dependence on Unreal stock textures is relatively small to begin with" - I can understand that this is an issue, as having a few S3TC textures in the map, and the rest default, can look at least strange. But in this case, your site shouldn't suggest using S3TC overall, whether from UT CD2 or from UTRP.

[Mister_Prophet]

And as you mentioned that "plus the fact that our dependence on Unreal stock textures is relatively small to begin with" - I can understand that this is an issue, as having a few S3TC textures in the map, and the rest default, can look at least strange. But in this case, your site shouldn't suggest using S3TC overall, whether from UT CD2 or from UTRP.

Why does not having a dependence on stock textures mean that we shouldn't suggest using S3TC? We are using S3TC in our customized packages for RD. And other packs under the series banner (7 Bullets and Xidia) do actually use a lot of stock textures.

I don't know anything about what reasons people have been giving for not using the 227 patch. I don't understand your comparison. But generally, if you release something that will alter how the game will appear for ALL the maps that players are playing...it's best not to do anything too drastic cosmetically.

[DieHard SCWS]

But the 5 textures you mention are computer panel textures...and they get used significantly more than the others for a lot of packs. And I don't think you appreciate my larger point, in that RD uses sparingly from stock Unreal/UT texture packs. The fact that RD is heavily story driven...with a huge amount of effort put in over several years of development...to commit to environments that are very specific, I'm sorry to say that, yes, it is a big issue for us. Like I said earlier, we aim to expand our community linkage when we get closer to release...or perhaps after.

No, i do understand what you are saying, basically its like this: RD made their own maps and textures, and only a few stock textures have been used, and those accidentelly might be the screens in PlayrShp. Additionally, the whole page is only to show people how to turn on the S3TC capability and nothing more! And i could have been a bit clearer on this, but maybe a was saying that you can safelly install all UTRP textures, and simply leave out the PlayrShp so you wont ruin your gameplay while following the RD story.

I hope you understand that RD ..........the moment. I hope you understand.

And trust me, i work on the SGC project for almost 4 years now, and i am just as picky. The deeper you go with your work the more things you wont except if it doesnt have a certain level. And in that respect, i thought, maybe make a remark, that you can safelly use the UTRP textures, but dont use the PlayrShp cause that might ruin the storyline from RD.


And i could think about that, and maybe release a secondary PlayrShp package that has neutral screens in them. And i do have to check the packages to be 100% sure, cause i recall theres another package that uses the screens as well (if correct the GenIn package).


Apart from that, as said i have to go over all textures in all packages to make sure if there no more screens, but all other textures, i asume are safe to use, because they all have been created exactly as the original, as far as subject, design, coloration, mood. And if there are signs on them, than those are skaarj signs which can be used under all circumstances.


The only reason why the troubled screens have readable stuff on them, is because studying the original textures, as well as the 2nd cd textures, they are supposed to have readable text on them. Of course i had to make a storyline for them and decided to use the storyline from the first map where they are used in Vortex Rikers. But i agree its a grey arrea, because the same screens can be used in a different setting. Secondary, already made maps can have the screens mirrored, which also looks uncool......

I take user friendliness very seriously. And in that sense your S3TC work is unusable for me or any of the maps in RD. That's not a criticism of the tremendous amount of work you have obviously put into your project. It's a criticism of how your project may potentially interfere with us presenting ours. I think your work will truly benefit those who want to play the mother game with enhancements. But it might actually ruin a room a player enters in RD when they walk past something and see a mistake.

But i do asume that is only due to those screens, and dont apply to the remaining lot? If not, than i am curious what that means, and i can have critisism, after all i need input from others to point out wrong or stupid stuff.

Uh? On this issue you have me at a complete loss. Putting UT players on the wrong foot? I fail to see how you make that connection. Our S3TC page merely informs people how to enable S3TC. Nothing more. How is that "tricking" anyone? The whole purpose of that page is to, as you said, "provide good info and how to".

I can explain that easelly. Nowadays games all make use from S3TC textures, or at least a large amount of them. But, users are unaware of that, its simply native stuff in their game. The only people that know about S3TC are Unreal and UT players. And for oné simple reason, those are the only games that activelly need adjustment to activate S3TC, which in effect is also the reason you do have the "S3TC: How and Why" page. This also means that only Unreal and UT players will go type S3TC in Google. And if they do, the "S3TC: How and Why" is the 3rd result showing up. And that third ranked place means people WILL go read the page, only to find out that UA players cannot really be helped.


And of course you mention that they can be get by certain maps, but looking for those files is a hard task. And the only thing i am saying there is, that those people can be helped directly since UnrealTexture also offers those aside the UTRP textures.


And that remark had nothing to do with the UTRP project nor the RD project, but in general to UA users, because they can be helped easelly by providing a link to where to get the 2nd cd textures. And as said that could be to the 2nd cd textures from Unreal Texture, and if needed, i can make a page similar like this: [url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Website/Downloads/Textures/RedNemesis/RedNemesisS3TC.htm]Red Nemesis S3TC[/url]


Either with that name or whatever name you want. Again, this was only ment for UA players that need those files desperatelly, and that includes players that got their UT from  [url=http://www.valvesoftware.com]Valve[/url], [url=http://store.steampowered.com]Steam[/url] or [url=http://www.gog.com]GOG[/url] because they all sell the UA version that lacks S3TC textures. And in the meantime, in the last years, theres aaa-lot of players that go through these sites ! And i only ment to say, that those players are set on the wrong foot by reading, you hardly can get the 2nd cd textures.



Hopefully that answers most of your questions, if not than please step in





And as i told above, i really do understand your point. Innitially you declined the S3TC textures because they werent net compatible. And backthan that was the only reason given, unfortunate, but understandable. And since that has been solved, i thought ill ask again. Obviously it was kinda disapointing that it was declined again, and now because of a few textures that are readable. And of course i understand where its comming from, and make sure, i DO understand the point of the page and why you decline it!


But i kinda hoped to convince you to choose otherwise and add the link after all, with a remark that using the PlayShp (and likely GenIn(have to look that up)) are disadvised to use because frankly said, it might ruin the RD storyline while playing it. And theres nothing wrong with saying that! It just means you take your project very seriously, which only adds to quality


And i may have made this more clear, the whole story about putting people on a wrong foot, had nothing to do with any project, but only was ment; i think we all should help eachother out, and UA players simply need that help, seeing the tons questions on Valve, GOG and Steam regarding the 2nd cd. And make note theres tons of similar questions about the missing Bonuspacks from that same cd.


But as i am, i am always willing to make a deal, and if that means to have a link to the page i created where theres no mention of the UTRP project, than its fine with me. and if you want to have that page differently than let me know and ill adjust it.


Or, and i am fine with that also, i always allow other sites that really need it to hotlink certain files. In that case make 2 links on that page and use these hotlinks while only giving the filename:

[url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Downloads/Textures/S3TCEpic/MasterFiles/UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_01.zip]http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Downloads/Textures/S3TCEpic/MasterFiles/UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_01.zip[/url]

[url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Downloads/Textures/S3TCEpic/MasterFiles/UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_02.zip]http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Downloads/Textures/S3TCEpic/MasterFiles/UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_02.zip[/url]


If that helps out UA players(and for that matter your project for the few used stock textures), than thats cool by me.








And on a total sidenote, and besides if you gonna link anything or not. For the players that already use the UTRP textures, i wouldnt mind if you could provide a list of the used stock textures, so i can see if i can give those a higher priority in case they are still low res. In that way it might be possible to have 100% of the textures used in Residual Decay S3TC for UTRP players that already use the UTRP textures.
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[Mister_Prophet]

Yeah, the only reason I'm refusing the link is because of the issue with the panel text. Before...when it was a matter of net compatibility, that issue with the font was unknown to me at the time (or so I believe, don't really remember. Although net incompatibility is reason enough).

And also, it really isn't just an issue of RD compatibility...but any pack/mod compatibility. Your textures are a beautiful addition to the mother game. But be that as it may, unfortunately in regards to custom packs the inconsistencies have a profound effect on detail. And I'm sure I'm not the only project manager who is so paranoid about getting all the details right.

So really Diehard, it's only an issue of texture ambiguity. I appreciate the effort made to refine the panel detail...but I think it would make your sets far more invaluable to mappers making custom content if things like starship names and other specific details were left out. And this isn't just cus I'm a level designer, but I'm a player too. And as a player I haven't downloaded your sets for the same reason. Cus I'd hate to go through one of the many packs I have stored and lose that sense of immersion.

I'd be more than happy to make an appropriate mention if this issue was resolved one day. Because like you, I want to help the community. But I'd hate to put anyone out by recommending a set that might ruin a bit of immersion for them. I'd even help you think of replacement text.  

In the meantime, I think redirecting users to sets "with a warning" might be unnecessarily confusing. Am I correct to assume that your sets are still a work in progress? If that's the case then another issue for me...if I can think of another...is that I'd prefer to steer people in the direction of something ready and finished. And if you're willing to rectify some things for users who enjoy playing the many custom Unreal SP packs available, then I'd have no reason not to mention and link users to your packages.

[DieHard SCWS]

But be that as it may, unfortunately in regards to custom packs the inconsistencies have a profound effect on detail.

And by that, do you mean the fact theres both low and high resolution mixed ? Or the "shock" that you can see detail witch of course  diminishes the phantasy you can have with them. Or in other words, do you  mean the mystique that is being ruined by seeing all the detail ?


As sidenote, theres two objects that have triggered discussions in the past. As mentioned here the screens of course. The other thing i ever did was giving 2 planets a very noticable Athmosphere(and in this case i mean the actual air around the planet, and not mood). But i added that atmosphere for two reasons, oné is to emphesise depth, the other to trigger imagination. Like; what can there be behind those clouds ?

I'd be more than happy to make an appropriate mention if this issue was resolved one day. Because like you, I want to help the community. But I'd hate to put anyone out by recommending a set that might ruin a bit of immersion for them. I'd even help you think of replacement text.

Because i am also all about detail, i have often been thinking to release a neutral package for those screens. Basically both shortage of time and technical problems prevented me from doing so. I want to keep the site as easelly as possible for people that start with S3TC. And having different packages will make it certainly more complex to new users. Which is absolutelly not what i want! But on the other hand i always try to do things in such a way, that preferably 100% of the players are happy. And that can be done, the site has enough drivespace to add different sets and easelly can handle extra bandwidth. In that respect its very doable.

I'd be more than happy to make an appropriate mention if this issue was resolved one day. Because like you, I want to help the community. But I'd hate to put anyone out by recommending a set that might ruin a bit of immersion for them. I'd even help you think of replacement text.

I guess the main problem is, that that text really is readable, since its a ship that comes from Earth, and of course on every spaceship from earth they speak English [img]http://www.oldunreal.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] So its either a neutral nonsense text, or the text is replaced by shapes that dont tell anything. Of course the last one is the safests. It would also solve the mirrored textures added to excisting maps.

In the meantime, I think redirecting users to sets "with a warning" might be unnecessarily confusing.

I think that is safe to state as well, but as proposed above, you could simply add the direct links to the Epic made S3TC packages something like this:

Unreal Anthology users can download the 2nd CD textures from these two links:

UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_01.zip
UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_02.zip


That way you dont have to mention anything, just provide the nececarry files. And in contrast to offering links to needed patches, theres no choice, theres only the 2nd cd texture set. And of course those downloads only contain all the textures from the second cd, directly taken from cd put into 2 files to keep the filesize a bit down.



But ill rest my case there, its after all your site and project, and like my site, you see fit as you want. So lets just say i threw in my 2 cents and leave it there, and accept you at least made a page about an 'how to', which is more than other people do

Am I correct to assume that your sets are still a work in progress? If that's the case then another issue for me...if I can think of another...is that I'd prefer to steer people in the direction of something ready and finished.

Yes, that is correct, but i always think, people that already used the 2nd cd textures, also know its far from complete. But needs to be said, the coveridge with the current updates is already very high. And in the beginning of the project it took me a long time to create a single texture (20 hours on averidge [img]http://www.oldunreal.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). Last year november i started working on the DecayedS package totally from scratch, and i worked on it for about a month and got 75% done(325 Mb out of 425 Mb). So in that respect the project is speeding up alot. And its my very, very poor health that prevents me from working faster.


But on a second note, the fact that its an ongoing project can also be seen a road going to a city. And the next update will connect to a new city. Simply enjoy the roads already being layed out. And on itself its not even bad its unfinished, like your project, people are looking forward whats ahead, talk about it, fantasize about it. In oné respect is might be uncool, but on the other hand its actually pretty cool.....
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[DieHard SCWS]

Though a bit obsolete now, i wanted to post this directly after me second last reply in a reaction from you about the remaining textures. Just to explain how i make my textures so you understand better on how they are created and under what standards.

As said, a bit obsolete, but here it is anyway lol:





As i mentioned, ill try as good as possible to always match the S3TC textures to the original texture. And that includes apearence, design, coloration, lightness, darkness, shadowing and projected mood or atmosphere if you like.


This is an example of the original texture:

[img]http://www.unrealtexture.com/Unreal/Website/TextureDatabase/Unreal/DecayedS/DecayedS/Wall/HIPANELC.gif[/img]


this is the same texture but high definition S3TC


[url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/Media/S3TC/HIPANELC_XXL_Large.jpg][img]http://www.unrealtexture.com/Media/S3TC/HIPANELC_XXL_Medium.jpg[/img][/url]


When scaled down and put next to eachother, than no real difference should be seen, like below, the left on is the original texture, the right one is the scaled down S3TC texture:

[img]http://www.unrealtexture.com/Unreal/Website/TextureDatabase/Unreal/DecayedS/DecayedS/Wall/HIPANELC.gif[/img][img]http://www.unrealtexture.com/Media/S3TC/HIPANELC_XXL_Small.jpg[/img]


And of course differences can be seen, and its kinda difficult to explain, but in reality the difference in the coloration in this case is caused by the detail. Like the 3 horizontal pipes on top (Pink, Yellow, Grey) The pipes, really do have that color, and i study that endlessly to make sure its correct. But indeed sometimes the color can look different while its not. Often this is caused by the high detail which can make it apear more clear. Or due to the wanted depth in the texture.

In this case btw, the S3TC texture is not entirelly finished, because i still have to add more dirt to it as well as the dripping rust that runs down the texture.


And here is another example, original on the left, S3TC on the right:

[img]http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Website/TextureDatabase/UT/UTbase1/UTbase1/Wall/mlbPipeWall7TES.gif[/img][img]http://www.unrealtexture.com/Media/S3TC/mlbPipeWall7TES_Small.jpg[/img]


And getting it that way is actually alot of work. I have to comply to above rules and that takes 10 times more work than creating a texture myself. As i ever said before, if you make your own new and unique texture, if you like it, and it looks how you want it, than simply declare it done. And thats oposite to re-creating the S3TC textures for the URP and UTRP projects, they are only done after endless tweaking to match the original.
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[Mister_Prophet]

Sorry in advance for the italic quotes. I don't quite get oldunreal's quoting code.




And by that, do you mean the fact theres both low and high resolution mixed ? Or the "shock" that you can see detail witch of course  diminishes the phantasy you can have with them. Or in other words, do you  mean the mystique that is being ruined by seeing all the detail ?


As sidenote, theres two objects that have triggered discussions in the past. As mentioned here the screens of course. The other thing i ever did was giving 2 planets a very noticable Athmosphere(and in this case i mean the actual air around the planet, and not mood). But i added that atmosphere for two reasons, oné is to emphesise depth, the other to trigger imagination. Like; what can there be behind those clouds ?

No, the higher level of detail is perfectly fine if all that is done is heightening the original context of the textures, which you are clearly doing. I'm only referring to the text. Without this issue I would have no problem suggesting your sets along with the 2nd disc ones.




Because i am also all about detail, i have often been thinking to release a neutral package for those screens. Basically both shortage of time and technical problems prevented me from doing so. I want to keep the site as easelly as possible for people that start with S3TC. And having different packages will make it certainly more complex to new users. Which is absolutelly not what i want! But on the other hand i always try to do things in such a way, that preferably 100% of the players are happy. And that can be done, the site has enough drivespace to add different sets and easelly can handle extra bandwidth. In that respect its very doable.

I dunno if a neutral package is necessary. Since the pack in a WIP, why not simply fix the aforementioned textures?


I guess the main problem is, that that text really is readable, since its a ship that comes from Earth, and of course on every spaceship from earth they speak English [img]http://www.oldunreal.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] So its either a neutral nonsense text, or the text is replaced by shapes that dont tell anything. Of course the last one is the safests. It would also solve the mirrored textures added to excisting maps.

I think using English is fine. The game was made by English speakers and I always think the original context of a game/story is the purest. But that is just my opinion. By taking textures where the original text was blurry due to a lower resolution and making what was previously ambiguous readable...you risk making the texture less usable in a broader sense despite the increased visuals. It's not quite the same as sexing up a wall texture or a girder. I think making readable text is perfectly alright as long as you're maintaining the ambiguity, since we're talking about packages that were shipped with the mother game and have been circulated and used in packs going back to 1998. People are used to the flexibility of the stock packages. Since your sets basically REPLACE the ones people get from the CD...text, if used, should maintain that flexibility.




I think that is safe to state as well, but as proposed above, you could simply add the direct links to the Epic made S3TC packages something like this:

Unreal Anthology users can download the 2nd CD textures from these two links:

UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_01.zip
UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_02.zip



These are the 2nd CD files? Well, yeah I can reason mentioning those links then since they are official. I'll put them on the page as long as the links remain good.




Yes, that is correct, but i always think, people that already used the 2nd cd textures, also know its far from complete. But needs to be said, the coveridge with the current updates is already very high. And in the beginning of the project it took me a long time to create a single texture (20 hours on averidge [img]http://www.oldunreal.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). Last year november i started working on the DecayedS package totally from scratch, and i worked on it for about a month and got 75% done(325 Mb out of 425 Mb). So in that respect the project is speeding up alot. And its my very, very poor health that prevents me from working faster.

I can respect your position. I know from our end that making our own S3TC textures can be a lot of work. But even though the 2nd disc textures were always partials (and yes, the scale problem for many of them is irritating), I think anything official from Epic gets a pass in this regard. They've been available for almost a decade and I think the part of the community that has used them have made peace with its inadequacies long ago in lieu for the textures that do look good.

One of our earliest attempts;

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/Mister_Prophet/LEETgrass.jpg[/img]

[Mister_Prophet]

Okay I made another update with the links to the Epic UT 2nd disc links you provided. That should make it easier for people who visit the page, thanks.

[GreatEmerald]

I guess the main problem is, that that text really is readable, since its a ship that comes from Earth, and of course on every spaceship from earth they speak English [img]http://www.oldunreal.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] So its either a neutral nonsense text, or the text is replaced by shapes that dont tell anything. Of course the last one is the safests. It would also solve the mirrored textures added to excisting maps.

I think you also have a third way - make it neutral English text, but make sure it is neutral, simply by not mentioning any ships and of the likes. You could, for example, add radar usage description, panel controls, etc. there. For example, in the "long range scan" and "ID 254" at the bottom it could say "Press the down touchscreen arrow to zoom in, up arrow  to zoom out" or something similar.

And by the way, wWarn textures from PlayerShip are probably not used anywhere outside original Unreal, as you can see the Vortex Rikers logo even in the low definition version of those.

[DieHard SCWS]

I dunno if a neutral package is necessary. Since the pack in a WIP, why not simply fix the aforementioned textures?

By neutral, i mean "fixing" those textures so they cant be linked to a certain situation. And since they are sitting in a package, it means the "whole" package is neutral. And technically its no real problem. The textures needs to be redone of course, but i can easelly create the package. The only real difficult thing is, how to implement the download in the site, without confusing people what to choose.

Since the pack in a WIP

I do not know what you mean by that, what does WIP mean ?

They've been available for almost a decade and I think the part of the community that has used them have made peace with its inadequacies long ago in lieu for the textures that do look good.

Well, the UTRP project must have taken a fair share of UT players by now. According the website statistics, 18948 people have downloaded the UTRP textures since the project started a year ago. Thats alot of people, almost twentythousend, and those downloads still keep rising. And last march was a top month with 500 gigabyte of downloads on the S3TC packages, thats half a terabyte per month lol.

One of our earliest attempts;

[url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/Media/S3TC/LEETgrass.jpg][img]http://www.unrealtexture.com/Media/S3TC/LEETgrass_Small.jpg[/img][/url]


And thats acually a real cool texture, someone posted that for me on the SP forums but didnt tell where it came from. So its from the Red Nemesis team ?

And i actually did use it as an example of how the S3TC rockfaces could go look like. And those rockfaces are really difficult, and i still haven't come up with a decent version to add to the packages. But i always thought its a very cool approach having the rocks cut in pieces like that and the used technique for adding moss on the rocks. To put i straight in everybodies face, its a damn cool piece of work


Can you tell me who made it ? I really would like to know !







PS

If you use the code below instead of the 2 links on the RD site, it will look alot neater and will hide the origine, and on top of that it will create an active link, so people dont have to copy past.

Code: Select all

UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_01.zip
UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_02.zip 

Effectivelly you will make it look like this:

UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_01.zip
UT_Epic_S3TC_Textures_Package_02.zip

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[DieHard SCWS]

On another note, i know you got a real good team, and you guys create your own textures. Have you ever concidered to have me process the packages in time ?

Unlike the ucc-Merge, i can create several packages in a variety of sizes. The benificial part of that is, that the size of your S3TC textures is pretty much limitless. It also reduces downloads from the server(dunno if there will also be a COOP version) because people only download the normal package while playing online.

Though far from finished, you can read somewhat on this page: [url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/Unreal/Website/Projects/ConversionProject/ConversionProject.htm]Conversion Project[/url]


And here are the specifications for the S3TC packages:

[url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Website/Downloads/Textures/LowEnd/LowEndSpecs/LowEndSpecs.htm]Low End Specs[/url]

[url=http://www.unrealtexture.com/UT/Website/Downloads/Textures/HighEnd/HiEndSpecs/HiEndSpecs.htm]Hi End Specs[/url]




Could be something to concider.
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[DieHard SCWS]

I think you also have a third way - make it neutral English text, but make sure it is neutral, simply by not mentioning any ships and of the likes. You could, for example, add radar usage description, panel controls, etc. there. For example, in the "long range scan" and "ID 254" at the bottom it could say "Press the down touchscreen arrow to zoom in, up arrow  to zoom out" or something similar.

Lol, forgot to reply on that, but yeah, that could work as well. It kinda depens what the majority from all people that oppose the current versions have to say.


So either its totally unreadable, or English that is situation independant.
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[GreatEmerald]

I do not know what you mean by that, what does WIP mean ?

WIP = Work In Progress.

[Mister_Prophet]

The only real difficult thing is, how to implement the download in the site, without confusing people what to choose.

Well you could replace original links with the fixed ones and encourage users to get the next "installment" or "update" and make it clear that things have been fixed. I mean, in the case of a WIP it's like downloading patches anyway; you're always going to need another one.

Well, the UTRP project must have taken a fair share of UT players by now. According the website statistics, 18948 people have downloaded the UTRP textures since the project started a year ago. Thats alot of people, almost twentythousend, and those downloads still keep rising. And last march was a top month with 500 gigabyte of downloads on the S3TC packages, thats half a terabyte per month lol.

That's actually pretty impressive.

And thats acually a real cool texture, someone posted that for me on the SP forums but didnt tell where it came from. So its from the Red Nemesis team ?

And i actually did use it as an example of how the S3TC rockfaces could go look like. And those rockfaces are really difficult, and i still haven't come up with a decent version to add to the packages. But i always thought its a very cool approach having the rocks cut in pieces like that and the used technique for adding moss on the rocks. To put i straight in everybodies face, its a darn cool piece of work


Can you tell me who made it ? I really would like to know !

Unreal Architect made it early in our dev. He based it off the David M rock texture with grass that was in ONP, which we used in 7B as a way to see how much he could improve an original texture with S3TC. There are some wallpapers floating around for 7B with it in use in a level. UA is currently listed as an inactive member of our team though. Contacting him might prove difficult, seeing as how I can't seem to accomplish it effectively myself.

There's a lot of RD level shots in the Image gallery on our site that have our S3TC textures in use.

PS

If you use the code below instead of the 2 links on the RD site, it will look alot neater...

Yeah, not really about the code though. That's just our site. There's a special way to handle links and I'm pretty much retarded on most of the technical stuff. I'll have my site guy get around to it eventually. For the meantime I thought I'd keep them there as is.