Looking for ideas!

[Rob-Bot]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I plan on making a 227 map pack with mainly alpha/beta pawns due to when it takes place. (only have sketches and some pawn textures won't bother with mapping untill 227i comes out). Before I make an offical thread, I am looking for ideas. First of all, the main enemy will be the slith (instead of the skaarj) and they will be native to napali instead of invaders. (always wondered if this was meant to be true before they were considered cousins of the skaarj because of the slith door textures). But anyways enough blabbing. I need some ideas for sliths, the main character and mostly guns/items.

First of all the main character will be a nali, since this map pack is meant to take place thousands of years before prisoner 849's arrival, way before spaceships were even invented.

+Should I use the original nali skin, nali priest skin, or nali/priest beta skin (which will be used on younger nalis) Also should I have spells similiar to that of nali chronicles? I really do not want to copy off them though. Also the nali player will be coded a little more and will use only nali sounds (no male jumping sounds etc)

+Sliths - for these so far I have regular slith, fire slith, nitrogenslith,slithelite (immune to slime,lava, and nitrogen, would say heat since they will be in a desert enviroment but that's same as lava immunity) and the slith lord (my avatar ). I was wondering if anyone can think of any other sliths I can make and what they should be immune to.

+Guns - NO original guns will be used EXCEPT stinger, and Maybe eightball (need an opinon on that!). Some ideas I have is krall staff, bigman gun (since they will be in the game as will most alpha pawns once released and w/permission) Maybe something to do with tarydium?. This is the one i need ideas for most.

+Items: most items will be replaced too like flashlight with torch, searchlight with tarydium, translator with book.
Thank you! you will be included in credits if your idea is accepted.

[AlCapowned]

I think you should use one of the nali skins from the final version of Unreal, although Lightning Hunter's RTNP conversion has some great skins. I'm sure he'd let you use them if you asked. I have brute and krall models with their UV maps from the tech demo, if you want to use them. I haven't finished the skaarj's UV maps yet. The tech demo also has a good slith skin that would fit well. I think the Skaarj brought a bunch of weapons when they invaded Na Pali, so the stinger and eightball would probably be fine.

[Rob-Bot]

Thanks Alca, BTW I saw your avatar on unrealsp. Is that meant to be a baby slith? Like pupae is a baby skaarj.

[AlCapowned]

Yep. I can send that to you once I finish it, if you want it.

[Skywolf]

lol, thousend of years before the events of unreal? is this gonna take place in the stone age of the nali's or something? anyway

1: for the nali, i really have no idea what to use. i would prefer the standard one in the case you want the main character to be a regular nali.

2: i think that those are around everything you need, maybe a weaker slith for the first levels.

3: i think that the eightball can be used since it is in the water god temple of the nali and thus pretty primitive (i always wondered how they could make those weapons in the first place). also, you could make a bow that shoots tyradium instead of arrows and maybe knifes that can be used both as mellee and trow weapon. for magic spells i guess that it would be ok but i never saw a nali use any magic spell besides teleporting.

4:you can try to make potions instead of health that can be used at any moment and slowly restore health over a period of time time.

[AlCapowned]

I'm pretty sure the eightball is a skaarj weapon that was just stored in the nali temple. The potion and bow ideas are great, I'd love to see those in Unreal.

[Skywolf]

I'm pretty sure the eightball is a skaarj weapon that was just stored in the nali temple. The potion and bow ideas are great, I'd love to see those in Unreal.

possible but then why do the texts on the walls contain information about it? also in harobed you can get the flak cannon and if you read the books spread throughout the village does it say that the skaarj don't know about their secret in the church. so the nali either steal the weapons or they are way more advanced than the they look (or they where wrong about it since there is a skaarj on top of the curch which could have placed the weapon there :-/).

[GreatEmerald]

I just went through Chizra on my Unreal playthrough, and actually, to me it feels that the Nali have been enslaved by the Skaarj for at least a decade, perhaps even a century or more. The whole Chizra temple revolves around the Skaarj ("Demons from the stars") - and you can't build a temple just for that in a few days! They could have rewritten some texts on the walls, but still, the whole pool of Thunder part seems to be made specifically for the Skaarj. It would make sense, then, that the Nali had the Eightball in possesion for a very long time, so that it actually became something of a legend.

[Rob-Bot]

The nali's apparently are magical (they can teleport and meditate in mid air) But also remember the text on the walls about prisoner 849 in Bluff. But then again, it's just a game.

[Sly.]

You got a good point there Great Emerald.
This would also explain why the Eightball is all rusty and positioned on that pillar as a holy artifact. They didn't know what it was, they just knew it was mighty and shot "6 flames".
Anyways, if you come to think about it, Skaarj troopers used it quite often in the game while the space marines in RTNP had only regular rocket launchers which could hint at the origin of the Eightball. Its look isn't very human either, it has this typical Skaarj look, those round things on the shaft which you can also see on the Razor Jack.

You shouldn't forget about the Flak Cannon. It was stored in the church's tower at Harobed Village. Also a rusty weapon. And then there was the Minigun, hidden in the Sunspire.

The ASMD seems human though since it has human letters and numbers written on it.

[Skywolf]

nice theory but then do i still wonder why you would make place in a temple for your enemy and what the skaarj by the pool of thunder was doing there anyway, waiting for someone to go for a swim in a pool to attack him? must be a pretty boring job

but on the other side, alot doesnt make sense: why didnt the nali never use the weapons they own?, how do those doors close without having to push them back?, why does the nali on nali castle get killed by a ship? was it really worth the ammo?, what are the skaarj doing in a temple?, why is belt tower in bluff eversmoke placed on such an illogical place?, if the water god can make lightning to crush wooden pillars why doesnt it just use it to attack the skaarj?, why do you get killed when you touch the torches in the secret grave in harobed?, how does the dispersion pistol recharge? what is the point of all those useless stuff when you are escaping with the escape pod?

and i can come up with a whole lot more ofcourse am i just nit picking for the fun, and am i aware that this is just a sience fiction game and that not everything is supposed to make sense. but that doesnt mean it isnt fun to think about it .

[Rob-Bot]

[img]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/snakebite2785/Autoplay-2012_2_15_15_7_58_894.jpg[/img]

BTW here are my current slith skins let me knw what you think!

Order is: Slith Berserker, Fire Slith, Necro Slith, Nitrogen Slith, Slith Elite, Slith Lord

[Rob-Bot]

[quote]
but on the other side, alot doesnt make sense: why didnt the nali never use the weapons they own?, how do those doors close without having to push them back?, why does the nali on nali castle get killed by a ship? was it really worth the ammo?, what are the skaarj doing in a temple?, why is belt tower in bluff eversmoke placed on such an illogical place?, if the water god can make lightning to crush wooden pillars why doesnt it just use it to attack the skaarj?, why do you get killed when you touch the torches in the secret grave in harobed?, how does the dispersion pistol recharge? what is the point of all those useless stuff when you are escaping with the escape pod?

quote]

1. They are pussies
2. That's how they were built
3. A Skaarj was probably flying by and did it for the hell of it.
4. Exploring, why not?
5. That's just where it was built
6. BSP hole
7. It's a futristic weapon that uses energy. Not sure, not really sure how batteries recharge themselves either
8. I don't understand the question

Not trying to be a smartass, just bored

[Sly.]

nice theory but then do i still wonder why you would make place in a temple for your enemy and what the skaarj by the pool of thunder was doing there anyway, waiting for someone to go for a swim in a pool to attack him? must be a pretty boring job

but on the other side, alot doesnt make sense: why didnt the nali never use the weapons they own?, how do those doors close without having to push them back?, why does the nali on nali castle get killed by a ship? was it really worth the ammo?, what are the skaarj doing in a temple?, why is belt tower in bluff eversmoke placed on such an illogical place?, if the water god can make lightning to crush wooden pillars why doesnt it just use it to attack the skaarj?, why do you get killed when you touch the torches in the secret grave in harobed?, how does the dispersion pistol recharge? what is the point of all those useless stuff when you are escaping with the escape pod?

and i can come up with a whole lot more ofcourse am i just nit picking for the fun, and am i aware that this is just a sience fiction game and that not everything is supposed to make sense. but that doesnt mean it isnt fun to think about it .

The Skaarj was there for the same reason that Skaarj at the beginning of Chizra was there: exploration. Probably got lost in the old temple.

Nali are a peaceful people, they do not use violence, instead they pray to their gods.

It's a foreign planet. It could be some field that detects lifeforms and some strange energy moves the door/magic. Wouldn't be that strange, Nali can teleport when meditating (although I'm curious if it isn't really teleporting and if they maybe enter their "paradise" and are dead in that manner or if they have some destination on Na Pali they teleport to). Maybe the door works with floor plates which trigger a mechanism but the moving floor plate you step onto is not displayed due to the limitations of the engine. Movers can cause BSP holes in UE1 after all.

It got killed because it escaped its duties and because it was helping a human. You were next to the Nali when it happened after all and the ship most likely saw you two.
Skaarj show no mercy, ammo doesn't matter.

The Skaarj are exploring the temple, collecting information about the Nali and their knowledge of the planet and searching for resources to repair their mothership I guess.

The tower could have been built at the end. There is not much place to build stuff in Bluff Eversmoking. There is just the cliff the cloister was built on and that one island where the tower was built on. Imagine they built the cloister first on that cliff (for aesthetic reasons) and realized they had no room to build the tower there too. Or maybe there was an earthquake which caused a landslide so the room they reserved for the tower was gone so they chose that one little island? Again, many possibilities to interpret this.

The lightning was created by a (Tarydium?) crystal if I recall correctly. Due to its force I assume the Nali are afraid of it or something of that kind and since it's almost like a weapon and as Nali are peaceful and do not use weapons I guess this could be another reason why they do not use it to kill the Skaarj.

Torches with BSP holes. Sounds logical to me.

I guess it drains energy from the environment or something of that kind.

It will make some sense, the lasers and all that stuff was probably some last try to keep you from escaping the mothership/to kill you. Another reason could be a (due to the destroyed core damaged) laser forcefield similar to that one in the Rrajigar Mines and the secret Skaarj base in Sky Town as some kind of isolation to keep the air inside the mothership when it's in space or something... I don't know, could be anything. Even developers don't spend much time thinking about such stuff, usually it's the fanbase which starts questioning all the things they've made. If something looks good and amazing, then they include it. Wasn't it a nice reward to see this scene with all these awesome lighting effects?

And yeah, I like to think about that stuff too! It's just too much fun.

[GreatEmerald]

nice theory but then do i still wonder why you would make place in a temple for your enemy and what the skaarj by the pool of thunder was doing there anyway, waiting for someone to go for a swim in a pool to attack him? must be a pretty boring job

but on the other side, alot doesnt make sense: why didnt the nali never use the weapons they own?, how do those doors close without having to push them back?, why does the nali on nali castle get killed by a ship? was it really worth the ammo?, what are the skaarj doing in a temple?, why is belt tower in bluff eversmoke placed on such an illogical place?, if the water god can make lightning to crush wooden pillars why doesnt it just use it to attack the skaarj?, why do you get killed when you touch the torches in the secret grave in harobed?, how does the dispersion pistol recharge? what is the point of all those useless stuff when you are escaping with the escape pod?

According to the texts in the Chizra temple, the Nali believed that the Skaarj were sent by the gods due to the sins of the Nali. So it makes sense that they built a temple for both Chizra and the Skaarj - the same logic by which humans went around hitting themselves with whips during the plague.

As for why the Nali don't use the weapons... There could be several answers. Apparently, the Nali built castles, so they were most likely prone to war at some point in time, but they could have decided not to touch any weapon after they realised that they did more harm than good. Or perhaps they thought that weapons were holy relics that only the messiah could touch. Or maybe they flat out had no idea how to operate them (although in UT, there are Nali players; mind you, UT takes place a lot later than Unreal).

Doors: Game mechanics (Epic were too lazy to code the doors like in The Wheel of Time), or a complex gear system.

Nali and ammo: Who the what now?

Tower: Ask the Nali. Perhaps it's a custom.

Lightning: Do remember that while Unreal is Science Fantasy, but it's geared towards Science, as in everything magic can be explained in scientific terms. Probably the pyramid is simply a very good electricity attractor, and therefore fires only in a single direction.

Torches: Never noticed anything like that. If you just disappear, then yes, probably a BSP hole (on, if you like things in-universe, a hole in the space-time continuum).

Dispersion pistol: It was explained in Unreal II. There is a quantum source in the handle that recharges it (probably using static electricity or something like that).

Useless stuff: Who the what now?

[Rob-Bot]

I answered his questions lol. but what do you guys think of the skins?

[AlCapowned]

They look fine to me. I really like the one to the left.

[Skywolf]

they look pretty cool but why is there a purple one? couldt you make it an other color? just an idea: would it make sense to have a black slith? that could create black holes as weapon (great for difficult levels) or fires something made of tyradium.

new idea for a weapon: kind of dark and maybe a little disgusting but also pretty cool (imo), a head of a slith that can be used like the GesBioRifle. you maybe could make it capable of switching different types of ammo for the different kind of slith's in the game. so you could, for an example, attack the fire slith with ice from the Nitrogen Slith to kill it faster.

[Rob-Bot]

it's meant to be sort of an undead slith so I wanted it to have a dark gothic look to it, i dunno just thought purple and black looked good together, and i figued i could use the purple lava texture for its environment

[Rob-Bot]

Updated! Slith Elite and Necro Slith.

[img]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/snakebite2785/Autoplay-2012_2_16_23_44_14_253.jpg[/img]

[Bleeder91[NL]]

Hmhm, you gotta watch out for total black spots, they get masked

[Skywolf]

the head of the slith elite looks pretty cool but the other part of the body looks like it is saved in a low color depth or made with too high solarization.

this are my attempts to create the same skins without the low color depth/too high solarization: from left to right: first attampt to create slith elite but looks more like a zombie slith (could be a awesome idea too) second attempt, looks less bloody, thirth attempt, looks the most like yours minus the low color depth/too high solarization, a normal slith to compare, necro slith minus the low color depth/too high solarization.
[URL=http://www.imagedump.nl/img21/1954/54slithexample.jpg][img]http://www.imagedump.nl/img21/1954/54slithexample.th.jpg[/img][/URL]

and no, i am not an expert in photo editing, this was just done by changing stuff like brightness and color tone.

Hmhm, you gotta watch out for total black spots, they get masked

seems that you can fix this by changing the rendering method to normal instead of masked.

[Rob-Bot]

Roland, I can do the skins on my own, thank you though. It's a low color depth because I can only seem to export it as a 256 color bit with the stock microsoft paint program. otherwise it doesnt look right.

[TigerTheGreat]

If the pack is beta-themed, you should use alpha/beta Nali skins regardless of people's preferences here, unless you yourself feel to do otherwise.

Please remember that the official chronology of Unreal events speaks of TWO Skaarj occupations - one during the times of Unreal, the Second Occupation and one taking place 300 years back, the First Occupation. During the FO, the Nali had some degree of technological advancement and some of them decided to learn actual combat with the usage of both self-made melee weapons and firearms scavenged from the occupants. I'm talking about the events of the "Prophet's Power" novel in here. The Chizra temple inscriptions told of the Skaarj because Haute, the Prophet, left behind a prophecy that the Skaarj will eventually return and during the events of Unreal, that Second Occupation is taking place.

[Rob-Bot]

Well i'm thinking of having the beta nali be younger versions of the nali and the regular being the older version which kind of makes sense if you really look at the textures, just thrown off by the tattoos but that's no big deal. And this isn't necessarily meant to follow the unreal story exactly, as the slith will be native to napali as will the krall (which is another race il go pretty deep with) Other natives will be big man, gargoyle, dragon and other cut out pawns which no one could really say otherwise because they weren't in the full release. I'll just considered them "extinct" in the timeline when the prisoner crashes. I'm not sure if i'll even include monsters such as skaarj, mercs, and brutes or other invaders. I still wonder if the slith was intended to be native in the earlier creations of unreal because of door textures which resemble the slith, but not too sure because they will had those tusks showing they have some relationship with skaarj. This is meant to take place thousands of years before 849's crash and i'll use some ideas from mel gibson's Apocalypto movie. Atleast in the nali environments.