Include the Hidden Skins in 227

[StalwartUK]

Though this isn't exactly a bug report it would be nontheless make a good addition to 227 in my opinion. As you may know, there are some skins in Unreal that are normally inaccessible to players unless one takes special measures to get them to work.

There are currently two ways floating around to get these skins working in Unreal. The first method only works on UTeamFix servers and must be done manually. The second method is to download and install the [url=http://files.filefront.com/6235174]Hidden Skins Pack[/url]. This method can work offline and on any server. The skins can be also be then chosen from within the game itself.

I apologise if this sounds like an advert but personally I think that 227 should inculde them. The best way I think would be to just include the files as they exist already in the HSP. I know that you could add the skins into the existing packages but as you know this would bring network incompatiblity with previous versions.

Since these are official skins and already present in Unreal I think that 227 should allow players to use them. They don't take up much room either, all the files coming to about 1MB when uncompressed.

[Shivaxi]

ya that would be cool

[Smirftsch]

mmh, maybe there is a way to fix the included skins with this skinpack without causing more compatibility problems. Donno yet, but i will probably need the sources of the hsp to try it.

[StalwartUK]

Sources? Well there's only Texture and INT files in there but if you are looking for where the original ones are they can be found contained within the UnrealI package. One or two may live in UnrealShare though.

For more information on the HSP check out this thread: http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1156085812

[Smirftsch]

doesnt this package contain skins from a beta version as well ?
If the hsp is only a copy of the included skins, whats the problem with activating them anyway (in detail) - maybe i can fix it there.
But even if, I remember some trouble with the nali skins, such as you can't see it carry a weapon and such. Whats with the meshes of the HSP- is it fixed there ? If not, which of the skins are working correctly, and which not ?

[StalwartUK]

The HSP contains no new meshes - it uses the existing NaliPlayer model that has been known for quite some time. I wouldn't know how to do it anyway.

As for activating them, check the thread I linked to. A post by TCP Wolf should explain why you can't use the ones built into Unreal.

The beta skins are a seperate download and are in seperate packages.

[BOZO]

I'm currently working on getting the fixed NaliPlayer mesh (that will hold a gun) package together to include in the version 227 patch. I have got it imported just having some problems with the animations. Still a work in progress but I don't think I will run into anything that will not keep me from fixing it.

[StalwartUK]

I'm currently working on getting the fixed NaliPlayer mesh (that will hold a gun) package together to include in the version 227 patch. I have got it imported just having some problems with the animations. Still a work in progress but I don't think I will run into anything that will not keep me from fixing it.

That sounds good, I could do with something like that on an upcoming project of mine. Any ideas on when it'll be available?

[.:..:]

I'm currently working on getting the fixed NaliPlayer mesh (that will hold a gun) package together to include in the version 227 patch. I have got it imported just having some problems with the animations. Still a work in progress but I don't think I will run into anything that will not keep me from fixing it.

That sounds good, I could do with something like that on an upcoming project of mine. Any ideas on when it'll be available?

Um.. why dont you just rip off the model from UT instead of waiting for that?

[Hyper]

Apart from the beta skins which would be nice indeed to be included, it should be nice to have a selection of the best community skins added the othe unreal core skins. In that way they can be used on any 227 server.

[BOZO]

I believe I did rip the one from UT or OldSkool (Don't recall which). There are some differences that are causing problems. More animations are available in the UT version and are listed (and named) in different order from those in standard Unreal. Thus I'm having to figure out which frame belongs to which name....

[StalwartUK]

Apart from the beta skins which would be nice indeed to be included, it should be nice to have a selection of the best community skins added the othe unreal core skins. In that way they can be used on any 227 server.

No community stuff though I wouldn't have a problem with inculding other official DM maps that have been released such as those recently found GW Press maps and certain other downloads, such as the Hidden Skins.

As I said before, having a Nali model with a working weaponhand would be really invalubale to me and I would like to use it in an upcoming project of mine. Anyway, I have no idea about importing/creating/exporting etc. models, I've never been too good in that area.

[TCP_Wolf]

The credit for the valuable post why the internal skins cannot be used go to Bane.

In Smirftsch's position, I would just take a look at the code Bane posted and change the loader accordingly. Then neither UTeamFix nor an extra skinpack would be required for installation... but.... one good question was raised: compatibility? Would you see those textures on a non-227 client...? Probably not err!?

[Bane]

The credit for the valuable post why the internal skins cannot be used go to Bane.

In Smirftsch's position, I would just take a look at the code Bane posted and change the loader accordingly. Then neither UTeamFix nor an extra skinpack would be required for installation... but.... one good question was raised: compatibility? Would you see those textures on a non-227 client...? Probably not err!?

Huh? I said something?
For compatibility... um, if the skin is present clientside (and it's a default texture, right?), and it's changed serverside before the client joins... wouldn't it work right there? I don't see why you'd need something special to make a client see a skin. I've seen plenty of people use random textures as skins and they show just fine clientside. I can't fathom any difference between such 'skins' and these hidden skins, although I also haven't looked at them at all.

[Smirftsch]

In my opinion it makes only sense to include these skins if they are working. It seems to be no good idea to include f.e. the Naliskins as long the meshes are not working correctly.
I think bozo is working on it, so if he, or anyone else can provide me with working skins, I see no reason not to include them.

[TCP_Wolf]

The credit for the valuable post why the internal skins cannot be used go to Bane.

In Smirftsch's position, I would just take a look at the code Bane posted and change the loader accordingly. Then neither UTeamFix nor an extra skinpack would be required for installation... but.... one good question was raised: compatibility? Would you see those textures on a non-227 client...? Probably not err!?

Huh? I said something?
For compatibility... um, if the skin is present clientside (and it's a default texture, right?), and it's changed serverside before the client joins... wouldn't it work right there? I don't see why you'd need something special to make a client see a skin. I've seen plenty of people use random textures as skins and they show just fine clientside. I can't fathom any difference between such 'skins' and these hidden skins, although I also haven't looked at them at all.

No no... apologies... I meant DOTS not you... heck... Smirftsch, would you PLEASE give me my edit button?

[StalwartUK]

I never knew that this would cause such a big debate and apologies to Bane... Wolf did most of the talking in that thread so I probably got mixed up with some of the posts there.

Anyway I'm personally not happy with two mutally incompatible methods going around to use the skins. 227 is aiming for maximum compatiblity with pervious versions right? It would probably confuse players. One method for all works best. You don't have to even modify any of the source code or anything with my way either. All you have to do is include a few UTX's and INT's plus a few additional ServerPackages with the patch and you're done.

As for the Nali skins it's your choice but it may confuse those that expected them to be there. It would also necessitate people having to download additional files to complete the set of the skins.

[Bane]

Maybe I should try to explain my point again. All of the skins (except the beta ones, but the I'm talking about the hidden skins) are already downloaded by the clients, because they're part of unreali.u. Thus, changing the skin texture after they join to one of the hidden skins should work fine. I don't see where all this huge incompatibility stuff came in. Adding a new package with the names changed would work fine without any incompatibility that I can think of, albeit with a download for clients. Adding changes to allow the ?skin= part of the URL would require changes to either playerpawn or gameinfo, which could be added to mods (e.g. UTF), and would be fairly simple to do. But these wouldn't be incompatible with each other, nor would they cause any problems with clients. Simply changing the skin to one of the hidden ones serverside should make them show on clients. I just tested it with the ChangeSkin command in my HnS mod. I was able to switch to using the hidden skins, and other people were able to see the changes.