For direct access use https://forums.oldunreal.com
It's been quite a while since oldunreal had an overhaul, but we are moving to another server which require some updates and changes. The biggest change is the migration of our old reliable YaBB forum to phpBB. This system expects you to login with your username and old password known from YaBB.
If you experience any problems there is also the usual "password forgotten" function. Don't forget to clear your browser cache!
If you have any further concerns feel free to contact me: Smirftsch@oldunreal.com

Leaving the community - moving forward

Unreal Unreal and more Unreal
Post Reply
User avatar
azn
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:42 pm

Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by azn »

Hello, this post is not whinning but something I think I owe to the Unreal community as I met many good people here.

As the topic says, I am taking a break from Unreal related stuff - without planning to go back. The thing I am very aware of is that most of you don't even recognize me as a part of the community; never was very active - that's for sure. In the past I was running 2 Unreal servers, and recently like 1 year ago I started my new DM server again but it did not last long. The main reason I am leaving is that I do not really play unreal anymore and I do not enjoy the game as much as I used to - especially online. I also do not like the status of the engine, only one people working on it - Smirftsch - you rock mate! I seriously don't like EPIC attitude to the Unreal community and almost complete ignorance toward it's existence. If not the community this game would've been dead for years now. These are the things that push me away the most from this game/community.

It also pisses me off knowing how much of an effort Smirftsch put into the OldUnreal project and how some people reacted to his hard work in the past years. I know they are idiots but still - what he is still doing is remarkable and I cannot imagine being such a moron to react in an negative work towards this guy when it comes to Unreal.

At this point I would like to mention something that only a few people knew about. That means Smirftsch, Krull0r and a few guys from ISV Unreal clan. For some time I wanted to produce a nice DM map for all of us to play, later on I named it DmRuin. Years, yes - years passed - and I was sometimes working on it - sometimes not. Had big problems with motivation as I was not playing the game much and almost did not play online at all. For me there was no real reason to carry on working on the map. I attach the latest version of the map to this message so you all can see what I've came up with. I remember when that idea to make a map came to me. Once while playing on one of DOG servers and I was complaining about music on servers and low quality of some custom maps - it led to an argument with Strategy-(DOG)-; sorry about that mate. Yet that day I thought I will make a map and spend as much time as I need to make it worth playing with good flow, nice look etc. so all can see that one's first map can be impressive. Well, as you all can see - it did not work. The work on the map went very slow and finally it ended with unfinished product. Later on we got along with Strategy-(DOG)- and he helped me a lot with server related stuff so thank you for that friend.

Would also like to thank all of you for being here with me, playing with me and having a nice chats on discord - sometimes even playing online together. Special thanks go to:
ISV-makemeunreal, Krull0r, Smirftsch, Strategy-(DOG)-, ISV-GamesHarder, Nicola-(DOG)- and Hellkeeper
Probably I should've mentioned someone alse as well but I have no one in my mind while writing this post.

As some of you probably know; I used to play Quake3/Defrag series a bit. Probably I would move to yet another Id Software game scene - another game that I remember from my youth - even before the world ever heard about Unreal. That game is classic Doom - it also have great community gathered around it and for some time now my DM Odamex server is there up and running. If by any chance some of you play Doom online feel free to join me for a match or two - my server has my nickname in the name therefore it will be easy to find it. I really enjoy open sourced engine - and the company that cares about their past products and the community that grew around it.

I wish all the best to the whole OldUnreal community and all the good people I've met here, stay safe friends.

ps. this is my 100th post on OldUnreal forums - how ironic
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Smirftsch »

Thanks a lot for your kind words!
It's the community keeping the game alive, just giving my part :)

I've seen many come and go over the years, but let me say this:
We will miss you m8 :'( :'(

And if you ever feel like coming back nobody will complain that you said that you won't, haha

How do they say... live long and prosper
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
strategy-(DOG)-
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by strategy-(DOG)- »

You'll always be welcome, azn! And never say never.... hope to see you back for good some day! ;)
It was a pleasure to discuss stuff with you and I surely didn't mind debating you.

Best wishes and take good care my friend!
WOOF!
User avatar
Leo T_C_K
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 3660
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:24 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I can't say I really knew you (which I find odd unless I knew you with another name, given that you were around at least since 2009), but I perfectly understand. I can't even run the game myself atm given my IRL situation and all the hardships I keep having, but I still do my best to at least recover old content for people to play and helping people debug/fix stuff where possible and still managing my project.

So despite all that I still put priority to the game, perhaps a bit unhealthy but goddamn I feel like everything else I try to do is a failure but Unreal stuff...
User avatar
Blu3Haz3
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Blu3Haz3 »

DmRuin, I think I remember playing that map quite a few times against SirFragalot. Got one of my first wins against him on that map. It was a two story map with the mid section being mostly pillars, it had a kevlar suit, shield belt, body armor, super health spread out in different sections. That was actually a pretty good 1v1 map.

I feel the same way about Epic Games. Years ago I think I and many others posted to Epic Games on their old forum to try and get them to do another Unreal project that would allow the community to get involved. I'm not saying what we said accomplished that, but it wasn't but a year later that they started the UT4 community project which made me feel a little hope that they weren't giving up on us. A thought really occurred to me though when I made the post to Epic Games that the reason they keep failing to market Unreal Tournament games is not because people don't like Unreal, its because they don't care about Arena FPS games at all. A SP Unreal game with similar gameplay to that of Fallout, Farcry, Doom Eternal\Doom 2016 or the Elder Scrolls series has so much compatibility with modern standards of gaming that it just seems entirely idiotic that they have not explored that idea yet. Fortnite was an adaptation of Arena FPS meta with health, shields and fictional style gun battles mixed with a modern trending gameplay variation commonly known as Battle Royale and aspects of zoomer games like Minecraft. This is literally all the proof anyone needs to gather to know that you can take some of the best aspects of Arena FPS games and combine them with modern trends to create a very popular product. A lot of kids love Fortnite because it has those Arena FPS variables in it that they're entirely unfamiliar with, they just have no clue that it does have Arena FPS embedded in it. The 'only' reason Arena FPS games are unloved by so many modern gamers is simply because they aren't willing to send expensive keyboards and mice to the landfill each month. Fortnite took away 'some' of that rage inducing shit while maintaining the good aspects.

The only reason Epic Games even gave up on Unreal was because of Unreal Tournament, UT is a game that was only niche in the era of Arena Shooters, which are dead. Every time anyone ever mentioned Unreal, it was Unreal Tournament that came to mind, and every time they announced another Unreal game they pumped out another Arena Shooter game that has no compatibility with zoomers and millennials of today. People commonly conflate Unreal with UT and that we have to wait for Arena FPS to become popular again, that expectation that Unreal 'must' be an Arena FPS game is why it won't be revisited for a long time. If Arena Shooters were to get popularity again, much like what Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal accomplished, it would require Single Player games like those for Arena FPS to ever really gain traction again. There is supposedly another Quake SP game coming out here soon, so be watching for where that goes... it should have multiplayer. So I imagine if that game goes well, you could see Epic Games turn its head back in our direction, but if they try and market another UT game right away it will fail immediately. They have to get people on board the Unreal train again first.

Also, the statement about Smirftsch being more dedicated to Unreal than the actual company that gave us the game is pretty dead on. Idk if Smirftsch is still fighting his cancer, but it speaks volumes that someone under that circumstance is more dedicated to this game and it's community than Epic HQ. I'm not going to roast Epic Games too much more, but they haven't even commended Smirftsch for his efforts to save this community. He deserves so much more praise for that. I haven't been active in Unreal in years, people knew me as Evo, but seeing this game silently go off into the abyss is such a bloody shame. thx Epic Games!
User avatar
Leo T_C_K
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 3660
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:24 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I still remember when Epic changed something the other way around after I gave my feedback on their IRC once.(about ut4)

Like I told them that I'd think it would be best if looking up and down was configurable in the options in menu, because I had to edit the ini file manually.

I explained that this is because I used a laptop and a laptop keyboard and it is best if you lack a gamepad to control the game fully by keyboard. It takes some practice but you can actually play well using keyboard as I did with other titles.

Before you know, they made it impossible to even edit the ini by hand(as it would otherwose revert), that seemed like a really jerk move and honestly I didn't believe the working closely with community aspect that much as other people seemed to, because not so much of community ended up being approved and there was even an internal conflict within Epic about what direction to take with UT.

So yea I should have been silent about it but who knew they'd pull that and try to control the players way of interfacing with the game. Basically they force you to either use keyboard and mouse or gamepad. No other alternatives. I don't care how little people do it that way the possibility should be there...I can perfectly play Unreal using just a keyboard and have been doing so for the past 10 years almost.

I remember when gaming wasn't about being in shiny overly bright rooms doing the same stuff the other players do, when gaming was about doing your own thing inventing your own way of playing and controlling the games. So to me this change of attitude and atmosphere is really off putting and it doesn't help that many of the ut4 maps themselves reek the atmosphere of overly bright and shiny modern computer stores...
User avatar
Buster
Global Moderator
Posts: 1610
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:02 am

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Buster »

All the best in the future. And thank you for doing your part in keeping this community going with your servers and the hours you sat in front of the editor. It's been kind people like yourself dedicating the time, resources, and creative energy that's given life to our beloved game. You have made a difference, and in some small way made our lives a little richer.
User avatar
Blu3Haz3
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Blu3Haz3 »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:36 am I still remember when Epic changed something the other way around after I gave my feedback on their IRC once.(about ut4)

Like I told them that I'd think it would be best if looking up and down was configurable in the options in menu, because I had to edit the ini file manually.

I explained that this is because I used a laptop and a laptop keyboard and it is best if you lack a gamepad to control the game fully by keyboard. It takes some practice but you can actually play well using keyboard as I did with other titles.

Before you know, they made it impossible to even edit the ini by hand(as it would otherwose revert), that seemed like a really jerk move and honestly I didn't believe the working closely with community aspect that much as other people seemed to, because not so much of community ended up being approved and there was even an internal conflict within Epic about what direction to take with UT.

So yea I should have been silent about it but who knew they'd pull that and try to control the players way of interfacing with the game. Basically they force you to either use keyboard and mouse or gamepad. No other alternatives. I don't care how little people do it that way the possibility should be there...I can perfectly play Unreal using just a keyboard and have been doing so for the past 10 years almost.

I remember when gaming wasn't about being in shiny overly bright rooms doing the same stuff the other players do, when gaming was about doing your own thing inventing your own way of playing and controlling the games. So to me this change of attitude and atmosphere is really off putting and it doesn't help that many of the ut4 maps themselves reek the atmosphere of overly bright and shiny modern computer stores...
Yeah that sounds like Epic Games these days. They sort of went from a company that encouraged more customization and user control, to a company that restricts commands and access to variables in configuration files via games like Fortnite. Although they may be going back to their old ways since they're introducing Fortnite to the Unreal Engine tools for modders and mappers. I don't know, the restriction of config files in UT4 does sound like a dick move by them, maybe unintentionally so but it does beg the question. What the heck happened to Epic Games? They seemed almost as close to the community in the earlier days as did iD Software to Quake and Doom. Perhaps that close bond between the competitive Quake scene and the developers at events like QuakeCon helped the developers maintain an understandinng of issues that competitive and casual gamers struggle with and features they also enjoy. They seem to have cracked the code behind making a modernized version of something like what we all played growing up, but in a Singleplayer format I guess. As for the bright maps in UT4, that is really just a competitive consideration, people across the board in games like Quake and Unreal have always used either bright player skins or bright maps so people don't have as much trouble aiming at moving targets. Are you talking about maps like Lea? Or the UT4 Deck map? They're pretty poorly textured and brightly lit.
User avatar
Leo T_C_K
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 3660
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:24 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Well yea but I meant the general style, I mean it does fit with playing at the conventions, I mean even maps like that Outpost map. It's all very shiny and "polished" to ridiculousness, but a lot of modern game stores/conventions feel similar so it kind of matches, but that's not what makes good game in my opinion, it should be customizable but optional with the brightmaps and such. But indeed I talked not about that but the feel of the maps. It just all feels a bit washed out and impersonal and like everyone would be a robot instead of personality. I kind of had a problem with the idea of ut2003 of moving ot towards sports feel, but fortunately the gameplay felt better than to be too much of a chore, but that's only thanks to tons of playtesting efforts, some of the ut2 betas had a rather bland gameplay and it could have been way worse. Even though that was mostly DE thing it still counts.

Did the deck map get even finished in UT4 or did it stay in the pre alpha state? If in pre alpha that's to have been changed still, but yea...

I have to admit after the 2016 versions I didn't play UT4 myself only watched gameplay vids. It just didn't go the direction I was expecting, my favorite was the 2015 version.
User avatar
Hyper
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:41 pm
Contact:

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Hyper »

Hi Leo,

I just like to leave a "thank you" for all your contributions over the years. Nobody was as good as you when it comes to your ability to come up with old gems, facts and history from Unreal's long history. Without your work, many gems from Unreal's past would probably never been uncovered. Last years I did not have the time and attention to your contributions as they might have deserved because I largely moved on to other interests as well as real-life events (Hence my servers being in somewhat of a "maintenance mode" for years now) but that does not mean that I don't have appreciation for your work.

I know there sometimes has been some drama about your personality and/or your expressions. This probably still is very much sensitive material here in the Unreal community. Therefore it is hard to say something about this without hurting someones feelings or opinions. Without saying anything about you (I don't know you well enough to have any right to say anything about you): As someone who is gifted with the autism spectrum myself I at least know that it is easy to get lost in the details or misunderstood in communication. You probably haven't been had an optimal dice roll yourself in life.

Anyway, wish you the best in your personal journey. Take care.

Regards,

Hyper
The man who stopped a tsunami

http://www.hypercoop.tk
unreal://hypercoop.tk
User avatar
Leo T_C_K
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 3660
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:24 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

It wasn't my leaving message actually, it was from azn but you know my own situation and I might be leaving soon as well in practice. So I'll keep your message in mind in practice. Not that I want to leave as such. And even then it might not be permanent. Its just in my current situation I can't even run Unreal anymore even though I did for like couple of weeks and then it ended again....

EDIT: I wanted to add a couple of things. First of all I was never diagnosed with autism Hyper. Second, I know how quick people are to diagnose someone with autism in the netherlands and then revert it, thanks to my partner.
But I think you can see that when people leave me be the way I am, nothing serious happens. A lot of people who stressed me out and pushed me certain direction are gone from my life or the unreal sites in general. Yes I do have tendency to get into outbursts after an attack, which usually makes more people on the edge and attack me or for my opinions etcetera and for what I say during such affects. But that's just it, you can put a label on it if you want, but the best anyone ever said that it is was some kind of maladaptive "disorder" which is open for interpretation.
User avatar
azn
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:42 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by azn »

Thank you all for your kind words, I also wish all of you all the best in the future. This is great community and I hope it will continue to grow. Maybe even one day the situation with the Unreal engine will change so it will allow all willing community members to work on it.

Take care friends :)
User avatar
[]KAOS[]Casey
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:22 am
Location: over there

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by []KAOS[]Casey »

azn wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:26 pm Maybe even one day the situation with the Unreal engine will change so it will allow all willing community members to work on it.
but that's been the case forever? the patch got to where it is as a collaborative effort with a bunch of people who never had and never will have the source

a large amount of bugs existed in uscript alone or could be exploited through black box testing

oh well, your OP indicates you think only one person worked on 227 anyway.
User avatar
Leo T_C_K
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 3660
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:24 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Besides the leaked "unofficial" sources there isn't a version of 224-above source code avaiable though (until UT, but again a leak). So he meant everyone on the team at least having acess to the complete source code of the current project (like live trees on vpn or github or whatever there is these days).

I think that if Fortnite wasn't such a commercial success that Tim would have somehow opened up the cleaned up UE1 sources or something and there wouldn't be a problem. But Unreal as games are obviously like a forgotten storage dump now. People already said that with Gears the Unreal stuff has moved as a "stepchild" kind of thing but now its way worse.

edit: But if anyone really wants and uses social sites like twitter you could send him a message. I mean after all people like luke got over to him on twitter, he obviously doesn't respond to e-mails or doesn't have time to check them all, but on twitter he seems to be responding to people in general.

Now its really sad that it happened, I mean that he got luke's attention and then blocked him, over something completely non serious and non important, so I'd say someone should give it a try talking to Tim about things that matter. Instead of someone sending him gender-swapped picture and calling it "Tina Sweetey" or whatever lol.
User avatar
azn
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:42 pm

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by azn »

[]KAOS[]Casey wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:45 am
azn wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:26 pm Maybe even one day the situation with the Unreal engine will change so it will allow all willing community members to work on it.
but that's been the case forever? the patch got to where it is as a collaborative effort with a bunch of people who never had and never will have the source

a large amount of bugs existed in uscript alone or could be exploited through black box testing

oh well, your OP indicates you think only one person worked on 227 anyway.

Well, maybe you are right - I am not that much into who is working on the source code, I just got that impression over the years. Funny thing is that after telling you all about me leaving the community you all responded with a very nice way and today I joined OldUnreal's discord - seems like I need to put Unreal a bit behind but probably you will still see me here and there from time to time after all - also, I noticed today that version 227j have HUD scaling implemented that for me is very important and drastically increases the enjoyment one's can get from the game. No matter how active I will remain or would I be active at all - I would love to see what 227j brings along - so far it looks very promising.
User avatar
Hyper
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:41 pm
Contact:

Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Hyper »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:15 pm It wasn't my leaving message actually, it was from azn but you know my own situation and I might be leaving soon as well in practice. So I'll keep your message in mind in practice. Not that I want to leave as such. And even then it might not be permanent. Its just in my current situation I can't even run Unreal anymore even though I did for like couple of weeks and then it ended again....

EDIT: I wanted to add a couple of things. First of all I was never diagnosed with autism Hyper. Second, I know how quick people are to diagnose someone with autism in the netherlands and then revert it, thanks to my partner.
But I think you can see that when people leave me be the way I am, nothing serious happens. A lot of people who stressed me out and pushed me certain direction are gone from my life or the unreal sites in general. Yes I do have tendency to get into outbursts after an attack, which usually makes more people on the edge and attack me or for my opinions etcetera and for what I say during such affects. But that's just it, you can put a label on it if you want, but the best anyone ever said that it is was some kind of maladaptive "disorder" which is open for interpretation.
I notice yes, I wonder how I could have missed that. ::)
And about the autism spectrum: I was strictly referring to myself there. I'm not in the position to make statements like that about others.
A well, consider my message as a praise to your contributions over the years.
The man who stopped a tsunami

http://www.hypercoop.tk
unreal://hypercoop.tk
Post Reply

Return to “Unreal General Forum”