MapPack for release end 2016 or Begin 2017

[Rubie]

Hi friends,

just will try to be short , as title says I'm busy on a new MapPack.
I did started more than 6 months ago on this project that will contain 3 or maybe 4 maps (rather 3 imo).
But like always there are upcoming problems you can't preview add start and finally end up with bsp problems.
I did tried to work once like Pitbull suggested to use as mush possible semisolid brushes first and fix the bsp after this to convert semisolids to solids if need to.Sofar so good but I have some textures on same brush that do not take the light like the texture next to it, some are real dark and should be light-up same as the other parts from the brush but they don't , I did tried everything that is possible by using flags on the textures they not render good the lightning nothing helps only if I set the texture to special light and then add a light with same flag (Bspecialelight=true) then it works ?
I also have couple places in map where you can walk in the air for example if you walk on a roof and press your key to Duck you can walk in empty space in the air for a while.
So I wonder if some one has any idea what can be the reason for this, I don't see in editor what is going on ?
The map is almost done been a lot work and can't start over from a scratch.
What I also see is that if you fly around in the map you can see white stripes allover in the map, and if you zoom in with a rifle they disappear and view is okay but on distance view it's weird to me, the textures from all walls are set with 2 flags forceviewzone and no bounds reject to avoid those glitches any idea is welcome to me as the maps still are in build stage but no new brushes are needed no more on map2 as for me map is done sofar only need fine tune it.
If Oldunreal would release his new patch I would add some effects to the map but not for now as the J version has stuff that is not compatible with 227i versions, and knowing I do create those maps for My good friend Smirftsch hehe
if you want to see a picture from the second map you can view it on my website just scroll down when page is loaded!
[url]http://rubiesunreal.eu[/url]

map1 done
map2 almost done
map3 not started yet any idea's are welcome
map4 to consider?

Greets,

Rubie

[Rubie]

A link with more pics from actual working map
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/izlael2zs2t3 ... 8ikua?dl=0

[Hellkeeper]

I did tried to work once like Pitbull suggested to use as mush possible semisolid brushes first and fix the bsp after this to convert semisolids to solids if need to.Sofar so good but I have some textures on same brush that do not take the light like the texture next to it, some are real dark and should be light-up same as the other parts from the brush but they don't , I did tried everything that is possible by using flags on the textures they not render good the lightning nothing helps only if I set the texture to special light and then add a light with same flag (Bspecialelight=true) then it works ?

This is largely unavoidable when several surfaces are on different brushes, unfortunately. It's linked to the way the engine computes light.
however
This usually means you have a small break between two surfaces. If you have drastic differences in the level of brightness between two surfaces, this probably comes from problematic BSP. Make sure your brushes are on grid.
If you have several coplanar surfaces on a single brush with a lighting difference and they have the same texture and the pan/rot/scale of the texture is similar on both faces, you can right-click on the brush and press Polygon->Merge to make both surfaces a single polygon and solve the problem.

Regarding the use of semi-solids, follow these steps to avoid the main problems. Keep in mind they are complew subject and require a little understanding of how the engine computes the geometry:
- Never let semi-solids touch portals and non-solids
- Avoir having semi-solid brushes with faces line on BSP cutes (visible in zone/portal view mode in the 3d viewport)
- Avoir very complex semi-solid, such as big intersected brushes

I also have couple places in map where you can walk in the air for example if you walk on a roof  and press your key to Duck you can walk in empty space in the air for a while.

You can always walk a bit further than the ledge itself because the player remains on it as long as even a corner of his collision box contacts the floor. If it extends far enough, you might be in the presence of a phantom polygon, which comes from bad BSP (or good BSP which is just too complex). Usually this is near or in the alignment of complex brushes (big round staircases for instance). Try using simpler brushes in the area, turn semi-solids nearby into solids and solids into semi-solids.

So I wonder if some one has any idea what can be the reason for this, I don't see in editor what is going on ?

All these kind of problems are usually easier to diagnose in zone/portal view, if you know how to read it. I have no idea how experienced you are with the editor, so if you need further help, just ask.

What I also see is that if you fly around in the map you can see white stripes allover in the map, and if you zoom in with a rifle they disappear and view is okay but on distance view it's weird to me

Seems weird but I'm not sure how it looks like. A playable version of the map would be nice to take a look at this. Also, this may come from your hardware.

the textures from all walls are set with  2 flags forceviewzone and  no bounds reject

Very bad idea, this basically means all your walls are always displayed, in other words you break everything regarding occlusion, so no optimization.

[Rubie]

Hi There,

Well I can post a download link with a playable version from map2 problem is it will be a huge zip file imo all this below is needed to load map:

Log: New File, Existing Package (Package MyLevel, Package OU1)
Log: 61184.0ms Loading: Package MyLevel (21887849 bytes)
Log: 61204.0ms Loading: Package Nalicast (8343055 bytes)
Log: 61240.0ms Loading: Package GenIn (3039598 bytes)
Log: 61259.0ms Loading: Package Ancient (10170681 bytes)
Log: 61290.0ms Loading: Package GenEarth (6186030 bytes)
Log: 61323.0ms Loading: Package Mine (6840408 bytes)
Log: 61354.0ms Loading: Package EgyptLB (1366148 bytes)
Log: 61365.0ms Loading: Package DoorsAnc (3740119 bytes)
Log: 61386.0ms Loading: Package TKR_MonsterPack (719987 bytes)
Log: 61398.0ms Loading: Package SkyCity (13270191 bytes)
Log: 61425.0ms Loading: Package Liquids (14013 bytes)
Log: 61435.0ms Loading: Package genfluid (5510043 bytes)
Log: 61460.0ms Loading: Package RubieCannon (49660 bytes)
Log: 61471.0ms Loading: Package Citadel (45271 bytes)
Log: 61481.0ms Loading: Package STARGATE_LS (22479312 bytes)
Log: 61495.0ms Loading: Package DoorsSnd (5340854 bytes)
Log: 61501.0ms Loading: Package Spinner (2076663 bytes)
Log: 61520.0ms Loading: Package Activates (906293 bytes)
Log: 61533.0ms Loading: Package HubEffects (222123 bytes)
Log: 61541.0ms Loading: Package treeC1 (198908 bytes)
Log: 61552.0ms Loading: Package AmbAncient (6773021 bytes)
Log: 61578.0ms Loading: Package HHkeys (5603 bytes)
Log: 61588.0ms Loading: Package XFX (198416 bytes)
Log: 61598.0ms Loading: Package DecayedS (11835011 bytes)
Log: 61627.0ms Loading: Package Palettes (421024 bytes)
Log: 61635.0ms Loading: Package WeyScripts1 (36778 bytes)
Log: 61647.0ms Loading: Package CT3 (1030219 bytes)
Log: 61658.0ms Loading: Package DoorsMod (2547363 bytes)
Log: 61674.0ms Loading: Package HHpawns (14154 bytes)
Log: 61680.0ms Loading: Package HHweapons (150696 bytes)
Log: 61692.0ms Loading: Package HHweaponstex (1881207 bytes)
Log: 61704.0ms Loading: Package HHwepWav (754316 bytes)
Log: 61715.0ms Loading: Package HHzombii (1238059 bytes)
Log: 61725.0ms Loading: Package NaliFX (672838 bytes)
Log: 61737.0ms Loading: Package Egypt (1574033 bytes)
Log: 61754.0ms Loading: Package Flare (46440 bytes)
Log: 61766.0ms Loading: Package ATSounds (608048 bytes)
Log: 61778.0ms Loading: Package Hypn (57807 bytes)
Log: 61790.0ms Loading: Package WeySounds1 (88425 bytes)
Log: 61802.0ms Loading: Package EndEx (3123573 bytes)
Log: 61813.0ms Loading: Package Spire (929066 bytes)
Log: 61828.0ms Loading: Package WarLord (658700 bytes)

if there is interest lemme know I would make a zip file with the non standard unreal files as you can see half from them are original unreal files used

Greets Rubie
Ty for all info HellKeeper your suggestions are very welcome to me!

[Hellkeeper]

Several of these packs seem to be stock Unreal packs and you wouldn't need to distribute them (I'm thinking about NaliCast for example).
Nevetheless, that's a huge number of things to load, unless you're using like one texture from each pakage.

In any case, it's hard to give further help without the actual map.

[Rubie]

Hi again ,

Did create a package from the first two maps I don't know if I ever can release this I have no idea if it is fun to play as I did tested map only alone on my server.

Will sent you a PM with a download link if anyone else who read this like to have the files sent me a message ty.

did changed the textures back to standard setting on the second map  the map we talk about over here so did unflag forceviewzone and noboundsreject.

about my skills they are really not advanced just basic knowledge, sometimes i really mess around hehe, as long I find it fun I will continue making maps never less there is not mush activity on servers past years, but I still use some free time to play online even if I'm alone I don't care, I just play to frag some Ugly ...........

Greets,

Rubie

Pain points on my skills are the use from the xemitters,effects,the FrameBuilder and ExtendedBuilders. for the rest only need patience like everyone i think

[Hellkeeper]

I am completely awed by the scale of your maps.
I'm flying around OUTest right now, it's gigantic, it's wonderful.
That said, I'm sorry to say it's no surprise you have BSP problems, it's even surprising this thing doesn't explodes.

Most of your brushes are not on the grid, because it's all rotated. This is fine for a few brushes here and there, but here, all the map is off-gris AND rotated AND it's all solid, so the geometry is all fragmented and confused.
Secondly, I see you have extremely complex meshes, clearly made of big lumps of geometry interesected, which means big ugly brushes. For instance the big square tower with the large elevator and the triangular windows is one huge brush with a few brushed inside for the platforms and such.
But most of all, the map is gigantic and even without this problem, the engine as limits and most map this size would be split into several smaller ones.

I don't know where the problem is in this map because I haven't playtested it, I'm afraid testing all the ledges and corners would take hours. Need more information.

One thing still: your oceanfloor coule be much simpler. You have used the terrain brush, when it could be a simple flat floor with a few addes brushes vertex-edited into hills and shores.
Also the big sheet used for the water surface could be 4 big square sheets, north, south, east and west of the island, instead of this giant messy sheet with holes and cuts.

[Rubie]

Yeah she is huge I know, did made even a bigger one hehe, problem was with this map I did have the plan but did not knew how to start it so did have to go step by step to get the several level platforms stages, did have to think a lot to get it as realistic possible to get as close I could from my designed picture the rotated brushes I knew this would become really hard by time and it was so but could not go back or should have dropped the project what isn't wrote in my dictionary (drop /stop).
The BSP is not perfect but can pass on a scale from 10 I think it's around 6.5 if 10 should be token as perfect. Anyway I did have it better but you know this 1 brush more and there you go its a mess and this I can't avoid whatever I should or could try imo.
The huge square tower ad start was build perfect with all single adds and subtracts, problem that did occur I did reached the max total points the engine can handle this is reason the big intersects have token the place from the original build towers to reduce the points and Finnish the map.( I still have backups from start date till today so I can recover whatever is in the map now with original layout every brush has been exported as second backup tons MB to delete if project is finished)
The Oceanfloor has been created like this to avoid under any circumstances waterfluid from the waterzone in the map, maybe I can change this if map is done if you think this would be better.
About testing the map there are no place where you can get stuck asfar I know did played the map tons times wile editing and on my privet server to look ad behavior on a server and found no problems ad all

About the SkyBox yes I even think this is the reason you see the glitches around the buildings it looks like the lights from the SkyBox flicker trough the brushes (corners)

Will test this once by deleting the lights and rebuild the map did not yet tried this lol.....
Btw it is very interesting to build near the limits and cause crashes this helps our friend Smirftsch to analyze the logs and make progress on this awesome patch 227J who did become more and more stable over the past years also the new scripts allow advanced mappers to do their thing like they like it to have and this could never been build on 225f . I do keep Smirftsch informed about everything I think is worth to inform and I can say every problem that did occur in the past years over here with the editor he did resolved almost all therefore I also want to thank him by this way and those maps are dedicated to him the OU maps! So I want them to be great so all can see and play them in future (hope half 2017 or before). I also think the first map is crazy and build crazy too hehe, thats me we have a crazy BOB but we have also a crazy RUBIE imo just fun fun fun......

[Hellkeeper]

This type of project is too rare, I consider it a precious gift from a generous creator. Sincerely.

I'm afraid debugging this thing is a huge affair. You won't be able to make it perfect and I unfortunately have too little time these days to go around the entire map looking for the right problems and pinpointing the causes.

Look around the problems in your map and see if they don't appear around or between specific BSP cuts. If they do, then try to modify the geometry a little to displace the resulting cuts (can be as simple as rotating a crate or shifting a door a few units on the side).

Make sure the map is correctly zoned. I see it is, but maybe you can zone off a few more areas or divide large zones into a few smaller ones.

In most cases, less polygons is better. Merge polys where you can, maybe simplify a few brushes here and there if you can afford it... And use semi-solids for additive brushes whenever they are neither subtracted from nor in contact with a portal/non-solid.

Other than these usual pieces of advice, I can only wish you good luck.

[Rubie]

I'm afraid debugging this thing is a huge affair. You won't be able to make it perfect and I unfortunately have too little time these days to go around the entire map looking for the right problems and pinpointing the causes.

Well I'm very happy with the advices you did mention and this is great full to me I did not started this topic to have it done by someone else but all lill ideas and hints are a big help to me, I will review map with your advices and see what can be implemented to get it a bit better on BSP and merge some faces to see if lights render some surfaces better as I know map now inside out I see fast if there is a change in the good way so I will try to get the best average from all possibilities and then take map as done

Thank You

Rubie

ps. forgot to ask 1 thing what is "vertex-edited" Leela did said once long time ago this also to me vertex editing but she did not know neither what this is ? or how it works.

[Hellkeeper]

[url=http://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vertex_Editing_Tutorial]Here's a tutorial on vertex-editing[/url]. This should be your main map-making tool.

[Rubie]

[url=http://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vertex_Editing_Tutorial]Here's a tutorial on vertex-editing[/url]. This should be your main map-making tool.

this is awesome help I've been searching on several forums in the past YEARS information about vertex-editing never found something about it I told myself darn this is fake I will never find that! (maybe its a secret lol)
But now I can drop my old way to create difficult brushes, and experiment with this tool to get more skills, it will save me a lot time hehe, strange I never did tried those buttons out I even ignored those buttons by time and did not pay attention to them need more glasses hehe I've been using a lot tarquins brushbuilder but there is a tiny problem with this tools the size is not same as the original and for cylinders you cannot make combination with both off them "unreal cylinder" and "tarquins cylinder" it wont fit perfect imo.Also the slanted cubes are more easy to make with this vertex stuff, will have fun in the days that have come did already have a crash so first lesson done
that's why I always run 2 editors one to create, and one to build with exports so I don't loose hours work on the real stuff ( the map)!
After testing this, ... I really see I did a lot work by adding,subtract and intersect who could have been done by this tool in some drags from one vertex or two , man I'm in the clouds now [smiley=cool.gif]
This also push me to go further to experiment with new stuff new models etc.................. endless!
I will inform some from my frieds about this they will also be happy I'm sure [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

thanks again

[Rubie]

Hi ,

I did release the map-pack yesterday the Administrator from newbies will test the 2 maps on his coop servers in a short time.
They will keep me informed if any problem occurs while playing this maps with a bunch of players (needs to be tested with several players!)
so far I'm awaiting to give the maps free for public download till testing has been done.
a third map was previewed but I have no time yet to finish this due I'm busy on a bigger project that has more than 30 maps involved.
So please be patient as I am. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Greets,

Rubie