The April - May beta (unknown build) detailed discussion

[Leo T_C_K]

this is not the article I meant...however it does show that corona bug....or is it the same?
https://web.archive.org/web/19980430045 ... vrsg.phtml
https://web.archive.org/web/19980430043 ... s/powervr/



yrex's screenshot looks like it is at different distance though...or is it relative? Look I haven't had chance to run/play this stuff so I can't tell.


edit:
okay what about this pre-release, the "tgm" shots...


its reportedly a version from May still or something. The Unreal logo was actually on Unreal.unr and not part of the menu itself....but that's not how it is in this version right?

edit2:
why the fuck the may7 botinfo has teams there
var() config string[20] BotTeams[32];

but not actually a function that sets the team...that's also weird. what was happening there?
edit3:
So the bot "Bane" was MaleOne,
also its actually SkaarjPlayerBot in the release version not SkaarjBot which is actually the reference to here...
the new bots otherwise are Reaper as malethreebot and Morrigan as femaleonebot. And vindicator is maletwo maybe for lack of skaarjbot there...

[Leo T_C_K]

I knew I saw the name "SkaarjBot" somewhere though....

It was in the BotPack 221 stuff and possibly 220 as well....

ah yes it is there in 220 as well....strange huh?

[Leo T_C_K]

yrex if you're reading this, I am sorry. It all just triggered me...plus Inoxx not remembering that and not directly saying something...

I am traumatized, I guess this is part a "victim complex", the experience with nwfalcon and similar folks did not help.

OW.

I have fallen from grace and my future is unknown, but I don't need to destroy yours by accusing you. Just because I've been wrongly accused so many times in past...I don't need to do it to someone else either....

This is where I stop. I have very little time left, for sure. At least I closed this chapter...I think....yet it feels like someone is breathing over my shoulder even though noone is physicaly there. Maybe its not enough. Maybe....its like Flatliners....

[Leo T_C_K]

This is my last chance to use internet connection for a very long while now....
so I'll say just a couple of things. This version was not confirmed to be real, cliff and myscha didn't respond with questions (about ariza and solaris) and also the original ebay seller didn't respond as well.
Inoxx's maps seemed to have been modified by someone else and probably also maps like the sunspire. Whether it was some dude at gt or not is unknown. The pro argument is that previously gti did do at least something like with the french votlan release...so they could have employed someone to make changes outside of Epic.

Even though there is unique stuff/code in this version that wasn't seen anywhere else, just some things are really strange like reference to SkaarjBot, a class that didn't appear until early UT days.

That's all. Goodbye.

[Leo T_C_K]

Oh jesus really...how long have I been gone now? Yea I thought thjat would be the last chance except someone bought me a few nights...

I have established contact with Myscha the Sled Dog so hopefuly he will take a look at the Ariza issue.

In the meantime jackHonda did look through the magazines screenshots from gamesharder and indeed found these images among it:

BetaIconPCActionJuly1998-84.PNG

BetaIconPCZone1998-65-89.PNG

As I said before I did see article(s) in the past with this, I just needed verification.

Ah..even it has that bug with the warlord captured on the screen where he just flies in place. It might have been different in earlier versions but well..whatever. That would make it more likely that its from the same version and that it is real in the end.

There are much more but I can only attach three at a time. Some are higher resolution too. But this shows the strip with the warlord.

BetaIconPCZone1998-65-91.PNG

I will inform you if myscha confirms the ariza thing or not. But it seems like it might have been real then? Then again also easy to fake otherwise.

No word yet though but I'll let you know.

[Leo T_C_K]

here's the list of magazines where it appeared:

"PC Zone (1998 July) Issue 65" pages 88-91 have a lot of small screenswhere the "beta" translator icon is seen.
("PC Action (1998 July) Issue UNK - Page 84")
"GameStar DE (1998 July) Issue 10 - Page 59"
"GameLand (1998 July) Issue 7 - Page 109" and on screens from "Computer And Video Games (1998 July) Issue 200 - Page 62-63".

I did get responses from Myscha and he sounded unsure.I hope he will still take a look at the picture of ariza with that armor thing and answer whether he remembers or not.

Tbh I have no idea about a leaked/faked Beta.

Jason Scrieber was the GT Interactive producer. Have you messaged Cliff?

He goes by Klyph Blez.

View T. Elliot’s profile T. Elliot Cannon
T. Elliot Cannon 12:52 AM

Ariza is a t3d corr mesh I used multiple times

[Leo T_C_K]

To our knowledge, the Ariza canyon, which I assume is what he's talking about, has been used just in Ariza and Ceremony, right? I mean nowhere else...well and technically Morbfanza I guess..but I am not aware of any other use.

[Leo T_C_K]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/j9nw98us ... s.zip/file

Those are the screenshots. It appears to say "Beta Versn." and not beta versin

I have to compare the graphic though

[Leo T_C_K]

So it did say Beta versn. in the may 07 version too? Hmm. For some reason I thought it said "beta versin" that must have been an artifact when I watched the videos...I didn't have the clear graphic (and don't yet), but I guess it might be matching the magazine screenshots then.

Acording to JackHonda it does look identical though. So I guess it might be real then, after all? And that few maps were modified by someone at gti, maybe even schreiber himself? I mean he did say he probably still had a beta version somewhere too...but he didn't get back to me about that.

Schreiber did write the final endgame text after all and he might have done so already with this build then....it passed him I guess.

Ah here...jackhonda sent me the bmp i converted it to png here...

Tran0.png

[Leo T_C_K]

Yea okay I guess I should not be wasting the little time I have on this, but I really do care about the truth you know? It looked like it was fake, but we shouldn't have made any final judgements...and I think Delacroix is the one always sticking to one as if it was religion. Well as you can see, anything can turn out to be true given enough research. And my own research was impaired too because I could not run/test it myself. The answer seemed to be a little more complex. It indeed matches up with copies given to magazines by gti, but this was not the same thing that gw press guide was based on, etc.
GTI apparently rushed out this beta in order to satisfy those people it seems. Too bad it also contained fixes that never propagated into the final build/gold master either. Its a terrible mess.

At least Epic themselves put together the Gold Master. Otherwise we'd probably have many oddities still left in maps. But too bad some fixes like the music and carcass fixes were left unfixed in the Gold Master. This thing is between test master and gold master. This thing must have been put together from test master and individual updates off the ftp, with some quick touchups and screwups when it came to maps....I wish I had realized this before.

EDIT: After all, these days mainstream science is like religion and computing is a "fashion". One wonders what went wrong. But yea...just because most people around believe in something doesn't mean you have to believe in it too. Delacroix, if you had reasons to still hold onto the old belief, you should have, but not for the sake of holding onto it. There were factual errors on a lot of the sides.

[Leo T_C_K]

My last conversation with him was a little more disappointing

I have no idea about these maps, leaks, screenshots.
View T. Elliot’s profile T. Elliot Cannon
T. Elliot Cannon 6:54 PM

I also don't understand why you keep asking about old Unreal content from 26-27 yrars ago.

I tried to explain to him further after, but I suppose he just doesn't remember or doesn't want to be reminded anymore judging by his answer.

[TigerTheGreat]

I don't understand. So is the beta real or fake? What's the final verdict? I am genuinely confused now.

[Leo T_C_K]

I don't understand. So is the beta real or fake? What's the final verdict? I am genuinely confused now.

There's no final verdict it seems. And I know it might confuse you because you like stuff to be set in stone. It might be real (after taking a look at more of the data myself) but the inconsistency reason is that it might have been schreiber and co modifying stuff, but people aren't 100 percent confirming it either. Its just...the apocalypse. I mean seriously there was a werewolf howling outside right now and some weird energy spikes and what the hell is going on. No seriously there was a boy who howled like a wolf around and other weird stuff.

Its happening again...year ending with 4 turning out to be fucking crazy again. I remember dots once said 2004 was a hell of a year. yea well...it was a hell...for me. That's what I had to think first of all. It was personal hell for me...
I keep saying I'm cursed and noone takes that seriously. Tomorrow I will be in wilderness again and with even less money than ever.

[Leo T_C_K]

I don't understand. So is the beta real or fake? What's the final verdict? I am genuinely confused now.

Look at this also.

look.png

I don't think we'll get an answer from Cliff if he's hiding from fans and Myscha is grumpy like this and avoidant too.

edit:
these were my last two messages to him, I won't bother showing the rest but he hasn't replied to me for a day now so I suppose he's just done talking to me.

Leo TCK 7:42 PM

I do dwelve really deep into this stuff which probably makes me very knowledgable on this subject, if there was some Unreal related history thing, I would probably join it, well I suppose there are some groups in the US now that do professional game research etc...but yea...I'm just a guy that knows the old game and engine inside out lol, I mean I started to play with the editor when I was about 12 too

and basically start my own project around that time as well
View Leo’s profile Leo TCK
Leo TCK 7:47 PM

So I'd really like to be taken seriously on this, I hope you understand. I don't care if the game is old, it had soul, compared to many other projects, even if the engine was a selling point, the likes of you and other people together gave it a unique feeling.

[Leo T_C_K]

But honestly...it would be very implausible to make everything here fake. That's my opinion. After examining the magazines, the other scripts I didn't look at before which had unique things and other such things. Even though the maps looked to be fake, there is an alternative but unconfirmed explanation. And indeed if gti messed with it they might have used part of a newer source code and make like a franken thing out of the avaiable sources, explaining why the dispersion pistol third upgrade is missing while epic was already making the new projectiles based now on "plasma" which in turn was based on even older projectile. And the strange unused dispammo as well which is unique here. yes it would have gotten similar result if it was compiled from the 200 source code....but everything together seems a bit implausible to be faked, unless someone really took their damn time and be a damn genius to compare everything. The fact that Inoxx and Pancho's maps have things that are not confirmed by them and are unlike their usual work flow is suspicious as is presence of things like SkaarjBot, a class that didn;t exist until botpack but who's to say it indeed wasn't a partial class that Steve Polge took out? And instead made SkaarjPlayerBot...or that gti tried to make this SkaarjBot, failed and took it out. It all didn't seem to be approved by everybody. those changes. Whoever did it also didn't do his best to propagate the better changes and fixes to Tim's builds. So it really seems a bit bootlegged in my opinion. It might have been Schreiber and his gti team messing with things knowing enough about the engine at the time.

Or....this is all a merge of timelines and this beta happened in one timeline and didn't happen in the other....merging of universes/timelines into one....

edit:
the question is though...where is gamesharder and why is he not back still? I know he said what he said but...it wasn't 100 percent and he left even before the conclusion after Inoxx's reply.

[TigerTheGreat]

the question is though...where is gamesharder and why is he not back still? I know he said what he said but...it wasn't 100 percent and he left even before the conclusion after Inoxx's reply.

Geez I don't know... perhaps he fucked off like you told him to?

Remember what I told you about reaping what you sow? So that happened.

[Leo T_C_K]

the question is though...where is gamesharder and why is he not back still? I know he said what he said but...it wasn't 100 percent and he left even before the conclusion after Inoxx's reply.

Geez I don't know... perhaps he fucked off like you told him to?

Remember what I told you about reaping what you sow? So that happened.

You also told me to fuck off. So fuck off yourself now. I ain't your punching bag either.

[TigerTheGreat]

You are and you will be as long as you keep digging that grave of yours. Think about it: how conceited do you have to be to firstly rudely tell someone off and then be surprised that they stopped responding to you?

Nobody is owed any grace in this situation.

And last time I checked, *I* told you that when you insisted your tinfoilhattery on me for the umpteenth time so I think I am allowed to have a bloody limit.

[Leo T_C_K]

You are and you will be as long as you keep digging that grave of yours. Think about it: how conceited do you have to be to firstly rudely tell someone off and then be surprised that they stopped responding to you?

Nobody is owed any grace in this situation.

And last time I checked, *I* told you that when you insisted your tinfoilhattery on me for the umpteenth time so I think I am allowed to have a bloody limit.

Besides how do you know that? He basically mirrored me in his reaction in which I indeed told him something like that. I don't recall the exact words.

But also...*before* that he said that he would leave if the beta turned out to be fake...and I'm trying to right the wrongs right now and I sent him messages after...so yes I am surprised that he hasn't come back!

But you can of course happily say that to other people right? When its me, its LE WRONG.

I could have just let this be and not come with the truth when it presented itself. So. I can also say...

FUCK OFF ASSHOLE.

I fucking took look at more data(despite my current *limited abilities*), calmer and in more detail to set things right or try to. Sacrificing myself in the process instead of to try to fix my impossible situation. But I am tired of it. And I don't want others to sacrifice for me either when I am the cursed one...

I wonder if I'll fucking end up being more rude than this scene I heard of before...



fuck you

[[kx]de_zeurkous]

You are and you will be as long as you keep digging that grave of yours.

Oh, me recognizes those words: they are the words of a bully.

Under all your bluster, it's really very simple: you got convinced the
beta was fake, then made the error of basing a loud reputation-building
announcement on that conviction (instead of leaving room for doubt just
in case), and now you're blaming Leo for having gotten it wrong.

Leo was never quite as convinced as you were, or even me was. You made
a fool of yourself and now you're trying to make it look like Leo's
fault. The truth is that in doing so, you're showing off to the world
what kind of arrogant prick you really are. If I were you, I'd tone
your act down a little before you do that prized reputation of yours
irreparable harm; after all, in lieu of *actual* accomplishments, that
reputation is all you have.

[TigerTheGreat]

You're tired of it - right. Haven't thought that you might be the tiring one? First, when I believed the beta was genuine, you did all you could to convince me it's fake. When I came out and did a PSA to protect everyone in future cases, now you've shed doubts on that too, making my gesture essentially pointless self-humiliation. That's one. Your constant troubles with your landlords and the law itself are in no way verifiable from anyone's point of view - because who will bother translating Czech documents you posted, but for whatever reason, you make yourself look like a victim too. You have put me in a position where I'm not even sure what to believe on either topic, but you'd gladly have me trust you blindly. Know what that pattern reminds me of? A manipulative abuser.

Whatever. I tire of you. You can respond in whatever way you like or not respond at all if that is your wish. To me, any door for reconnection is permanently closed, seeing as not only you have the makings of a really toxic person, but not only to me but to others as well.

Just know this: whatever comes your way in the future, you most likely deserved it.

EDIT: And as for the words of your boyfriend, I see them only as worthless insults. He's only right in one thing: you made me look like a fool. But YOU did it, not anyone else. So... yeah. To hell with the likes of you. I'm leaving this particular forum - not only is it currently half-dead due to the majority of activity moved on to Discord but also, I'll wait until the two of you are hopefully banned in the future. Because the only bullies are the two of you.

[[kx]de_zeurkous]

...

[Leo T_C_K]

You know what? I do apologize to gamesharder even though it was a knee jerk reaction of me to his antagonizing message when I simply said that we should heed the warnings and treat it as fake unless proven otherwise just in case like we were told.
And then he told me that it should be treated real unless proven fake.

Besides it all went down a little shady and...I don't want to know what the consequences will be down the line....I mean you see, someone up there might have a problem with it. I will leave you to figure out what that means but it means certain agreements were broken that were in place, some of them I worked so hard to achieve for....but with the agreement being broken...it means the hell dogs might be on their way...

But...gamesharder is free to come back...there's no reason for him not to. So why doesn't he? What is he scared of?

[Leo T_C_K]

GWSource.PNG

PrimaSource1.png

PrimaSource2.png

This mess is just incredible. I mean...I was told by jackhonda who was examining details in the guides...like the gw one has the queenend like the may07 version...yet it doesn't mention the queen being in a pod and it makes note of her screaming(in the gw one) yet there's no screaming events in the may07 one....

but you see that the prima version has mover bugs that make them all black (no racism intended) too.

Yet Ceremony doesn't have the acerak room. And outpost3j/mountain fortress has the underwater fans...
I'm done really...its impossible to tell from this how it is. And this version is supposed to be newer than those two? I just don't get it...either someone at gti was smoking crack by mixing all kind of resources or I dunno how this is possible. Then again I kept being told "we had no real version control"
if it was this bad in the last month of developement...I really...I dunno what to think anymore.

[Leo T_C_K]

I wonder if the pc gamer supplement thing has final answers...i can't check the physical thing because i lost it so if anyone else orders it from that guy who posted a link on betaarchive maybe that can be solved...but can anyone see if the side lifts are visible in this view and make it identical to the view otherwise?

quuencut.png

I had assumed those floating platform movers are the thing that gw pess guide talks about.

I mean it says one of the lifts along the outer edge of the room and i am not sure if those two inside lifts can be classified as along...this is clearly strange.

So it still can be a fake I guess...that's why I said there's no real final verdict. So who is really being toxic huh?