Windows 10 RUINS Everything

[makemeunreal]

My new laptop shipped with a pre-installed W10 PRO and given the fact that it is a 2020 dec gaming laptop my friend told me not to install W7 on it.

Since then, EVERY single stuff I had no problem with on my 2016 Acer Aspire (Win7) keeps FREAKIN' out including Unreal and the Editor as well. Not to mention OBS, and pretty much everything.

I am like literally furious right now.

The recent stupid behavior this piece of shit is that it keeps moving, like snapping the camera whenever I simply highlight (click) into another viewport...
It moves the camera whenever I zoom in a viewport... It's UNUSABLE.
So, right now it's impossible for me to use the editor....
Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Here's a video of this pos.

[Hellkeeper]

Hello and thank you for joining the W10 hotline. We hope you enjoy the next 5 years of suffering and pain.
We remain of course totally available to help you choke back the tears and grind your teeth in frustration.

Respectfully

The W10 help team
XOXOXOXOXOXO

[makemeunreal]

I open the editor.

In the top viewport, I see the camera's direction to point straight left.
I click into the 3D viewport (don't move the mouse, just click) and the direction of the camera in the TOP viewport rotates 180'.
Every other click in the 3d viewport make the camera move on it's own to that direction. (Without ofc, moving the mouse)

@Hellkeeper

Man, 2 days of pain... I hate it.

Everything is broken. Just everything.

[Smirftsch]

what version are you using right now?
I only experienced such behavior in my Win10 VM, not natively- although my main platform is Debian Linux for quite some time now, because I was sick of Win10 as well.

[anth]

I implement a workaround for this problem for 469's Unreal Editor and I ninja pushed the fix into the 227 repo as well. All recent 227j editor builds should have the fix.

[makemeunreal]

Is it possible to somehow cook a fix for 227i users?

It renders mapping extremely painful, tedious...

This bug renders the editor UNUSABLE.

[Hellkeeper]

@Hellkeeper

Man, 2 days of pain... I hate it.

Everything is broken. Just everything.

Listen here you whiny youngster, back in my days we used to sculpt maps out of clay and legos to make a mold out of which we would make a paper model whose dimensions would be noted as a mix of inches and centimeters before inputing these as the polygon's vertices in notepad and then a friendly bat would spin a wheel for the computer to have enough power so the map would build. You have no idea how good you have it.

I myself made a full UT2004 map with W10 and I dare say 60% of the time was spent waiting for a click on a surface to register because for some reason, D3D has become an impediment for UnrealEd and there's no choice of renderer in UEd 3.0. That was before someone found a workaround. I have experienced more frustration building DM-Empire than I did trying (and failing) to come up with a layout for 2 years straight back in 2010. W10 has made mapping a chore I would be ashamed to inflict on my elf slaves (wat do?).

UEd 2.1 and 2.2, by allowing you to use software or OpenGl to render, only suffer from input issues, but that's already such a pain it's discouraging. I'll let you imagine what happens when selecting a surface or an actor takes between 5 and 60 (Dear Satan, please take my soul) seconds to register, all the while the editor is frozen stuck.

[makemeunreal]

That was some serious suffering you projected yourself to.

[Hellkeeper]

That was some serious suffering you projected yourself to.

Yeah, I'm pretty h4rdc0r3.

Seriously though, I feel your pain, W10 has made everything UnrealEd-related either completely broken or at the very least tedious enough to be disheartening. It's a real pain. What ou are describing, I guess, is this painful "viewport moves when I click". This happens if you click while the mouse is moving. Only way to avoid it is to click while keeping the mouse completely still, and even then it will sometimes "jump". Nothing fixes it so far, all renderers are affected.

If you use D3D rendering, you will also experience serious delay between a click and its effect in D3D viewports. This can be avoided by (try not to laugh) disabling whatever graphic card you are using in the device manager so you computer chipset takes over. You have to do this before launching UnrealEd, otherwise the editor remains frozen.

[makemeunreal]

Well... If it wasn't for new hardvare... I WOULD WIPE EVERY SONGLE STUPID BIT OF THIS CRAP.

Bought it.
Unreal didn't run as intended, was experiencing serious frame lag.
OBS doesn't work. Won't display anything.
Editor is fakkkked up.
UModel freaks out.

Every single thing I HAD NO PROBLEM before broke. It's like a torture.

So, OU staff...
Can we have a hotfix for 227i? xD

[Skywolf]

I honestly think a serious effort should be put into creating an entirely new editor from scratch using something like QT. UnrealED always felt like it just barely held together with virtual ducttape, hopes and dreams even at the best of times.

However, I don't know how feasible this would be. Iirc is UnrealEd just a visual basic front end to interact with editor.dll. And i dont know which of the two is to blame for these problems and if something written with modern tools and OS's in mind could even interact with editor.dll. I cant imagine getting the viewports to work would be easy for example.

[Hellkeeper]

UnrealED always felt like it just barely held together with virtual ducttape, hopes and dreams even at the best of times.

Wow, I fully disagree. Even UEd 1.0 akways felt like a finished and well integrated product compared to all other editors of the same era I had the misfortune to try. 2.0 is great despite a few issues which are minor compared to those I found in others and all the updated versions (2.1, 2.2, 3.0) were so smooth it felt like mapping with my mind.

[ividyon]

My understanding is that an increasing amount of effort is being put into fixing up the UnrealEd back-end to allow things via the console that are currently specific to the UI, meaning that technically, ideally, the end result is that the community can contribute their own editor frontends. So, that's already an ongoing thing. Increasing amounts of "the duct tape" are being cleared away already in the current builds of 227j.

But as of now, I'll be enough of a realist to say that this won't actually happen, as the community is far too small to sustain such an effort.

And I most certainly don't see this task in the hands of the 227 team. UnrealEd 2.2 is already quite a blessing compared to 2.0, and there are plenty of other things that take priority.

[Skywolf]

I mean sure, if you ignore the editor not reacting to mouse clicks whenever is feel like, the texture browser not refreshing as it should when switching between packages or groups, having to deal with a mess of open windows that you constantly need to either move out the way or close and re-open, having problem rotating actors due to gimbal locking, selecting brush wireframes requiring you to be pixel perfect (on moderns high res displays) and probably a bunch more than I'm not thinking about, it's flawless!

Not sure how much of these are fixed in 2.2. Can imagine the first two are (2.1 is the last one I used on Windows and Wine introduces a bunch of issues making it difficult to see if these things are fixed). But general usability has always been stuck in 1998.

I agree the editor is pretty good for its time and these issues were forgiven as a result but it could really use an update. And I cant help but feel 227's efforts are held back by the outdated code. I might be wrong of course. Not like anybody can look into the code except those blessed by Epic.

[ividyon]

Some of these are artifacts of incompatibilities with newer systems, as some of the issues only started appearing in Win10. Others are minor inconveniences at best. There are some egregious annoyances like the one described in the OP, which really do make a mess of one's workflow, and by now I have campaigned enough that these are fixed in 227j. (Community outreach is needed to inform devs about these issues, as Smirf and Dots don't spend all day making maps.) The rest are really not such a huge deal that they ruin your work with the editor. It's still a rather usable and comfortable tool, which I vastly prefer to the likes of Hammer.

[wfank30]

It works fine with 227i patch in my Win 10. But I know the feeling of some great old programs not working on Win 10, its garbage, Win 10 was unnecessary to begin with. I played the original game 2001-2013first in Win 2000 (2001-2003) and then Win XP (2003-2013) until my old Pentium 4 pc broke, and as a gamer I would say Win XP was the pinnacle of Microsoft's golden PC gaming days, Win Vista was garbage and Win 7 a good successor, still older games I used to enjoy ran better on Win XP, and I had a huge attachment to that OS. Win 10 besides ruining some great old games also has the drawback of automatically deleting game exe files without my permission. That I was so frustrtared I even threatened microsoft official twitter, they explained I can just use Windows Defender exclusion option to prevent that, but WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO DELETE MY PROGRAMS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION IN THE FIRST PLACE? I wish nothing more that I could have those days when everyone was just satisfied with Win XP, simple to instal, simple to use and made all your programs work perfectly, I could play any games Doom 1 (1993) to GTA 5 (pc edition 2015) perfectly on Windows XP, I originally had Win XP on my new PC but in 2016 I had to shift to Win 7 due to a lot of new features no longer supporting it and from 2019 I am using Win 10. Anyway I don't have the same issue aas you with the 227i patch, but I have my fair share of hatred of Win 10.... I wish nothing more than to returnt to the simple, easy to use days of Win XP which ran every program I ever tried running on it from 2003-2016 with the most efficient, effective and satisfying manner. But MS has to continue its business, and to sell, so life goes on, we just have to adapt to it!

[x21]

what version are you using right now?
I only experienced such behavior in my Win10 VM, not natively- although my main platform is Debian Linux for quite some time now, because I was sick of Win10 as well.

What Desktop Environment if I may ask?

[Smirftsch]

Mate right now.