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How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Report bugs, read about fixes, new features and ask questions about the Unreal 227 patch here. Place comments and commit suggestions.
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uji
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How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by uji »

Hi,

I remember being able to do this in the past but I cannot remember what I need to do. From memory it works fine but the guns are updated to UT style guns.

Cheers,

Last edited by uji on Tue May 19, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by []KAOS[]Casey »

you don't. there are mods to do so, but they are by far not representative of unreal 1 at all. the "creator" took great liberties in modifying how things work rather than simply allowing unreal 1 stuff to work in UT.
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hund_schraube
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by hund_schraube »

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Dr.Flay™
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by Dr.Flay™ »

It just takes a few addons for either game and a little editing of the 2 game ini files.
I mostly play UT99 in Unreal.

Turn Unreal into UT and UT into Unreal
https://ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=5540
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Teromen
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by Teromen »

Too bad the newer versions of Infiltration don't work with it :(

That or I don't know how to do it.
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path0gen
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by path0gen »

I wonder how bad the inaccuracies while playing unreal campaign through ut oldskool mod really are. I did it a long time ago, not sure if I've ever beaten it start to end tho, but I don't remember anything particulary offensive. What exactly makes it "by far not representative of unreal 1 at all"?
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ividyon
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by ividyon »

The UT Oldskool mod offers a mutator and some added classes to be able to play Unreal maps in UT.

Unreal maps (before 227) are fully forward compatible with UT, but - to VERY simply paraphrase things (while omitting technical details I don't know) - UT doesn't easily let you just use the old gametypes and items. Instead, they are forcibly converted to UT counterparts, which breaks things, since UT doesn't have a single-player campaign mode out of the box, and old Unreal weapons are forcibly converted to UT weapons.

Oldskool, in turn, overrides these classes with its own (having its own version of each old Unreal weapon, and the Unreal single-player game type), and gives you a mutator which lets you *launch* those old Unreal campaigns and play them.

This is perfectly fine, by the way! Oldskool is perfectly okay for most casual playing purposes. You won't notice much difference besides your UT player model taunting on kills, a reload key for your Automag, and some other minute things.

A lot of Oldskool can even be configured; you can decide which UT weapons to override with Oldskool weapons, and which to keep.

However, this isn't "adding Unreal 1 to your UT installation" as much as a workaround to let you play the old maps.

Unreal 1 mods are still based off of the old Unreal 1 actors, so a chunk of them won't work in UT, since they'd have to be based off of the Oldskool actors instead. One would have to go and rework many of these mods to base them off of the Oldskool replacements instead of the original classes.

A true combination of Unreal and UT isn't possible, as there are engine differences between U1, UT and especially 227, and there is no true parity.

However personally, I recommend not getting too hung up on that, and just having an install of each. They're very tiny games for today's standards, and it's not a lot of effort to set them up correctly.
Last edited by ividyon on Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Masterkent
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by Masterkent »

The UT Oldskool mod offers a mutator and some added classes to be able to play Unreal maps in UT.
That's possible without any mods.
UT doesn't easily let you just use the old gametypes and items.
Starting U1 campaign in UT is as easy as executing 2 console commands (see below).
Instead, they are forcibly converted to UT counterparts
That's because UT uses Botpack.DeathMatchPlus as the default game type. This is a configurable setting that can be modified by editing UnrealTournament.ini

Code: Select all

[Engine.Engine]
....
DefaultGame=Botpack.DeathMatchPlus
You can specify any valid class there, including UnrealShare.SinglePlayer (which is the default for Unreal 1):

Code: Select all

[Engine.Engine]
....
DefaultGame=UnrealShare.SinglePlayer
since UT doesn't have a single-player campaign mode out of the box
UT _does_ provide U1 single-player mode, you just can't find it anywhere in the default UT game menu. Nevertheless, you can use the in-game console to open U1 maps or specify the initial map via command line.

In particular, to start the U1 campaign with difficulty 3 and player class UnrealI.MaleOne, all you need is to enter

Code: Select all

open Vortex2?Difficulty=3?Class=UnrealI.MaleOne
in console. If you didn't change DefaultGame in Engine.Engine before that, you can execute

Code: Select all

set LevelInfo DefaultGameType UnrealShare.SinglePlayer
in order to make this class used on further levels.

In case if you forgot to change the default game type in time and entered a new level with a wrong game type, you can execute

Code: Select all

summon UnrealShare.SinglePlayer
set LevelInfo DefaultGameType UnrealShare.SinglePlayer
RestartLevel
Last edited by Masterkent on Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Victor Delacroix
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by Victor Delacroix »

The UT Oldskool mod offers a mutator and some added classes to be able to play Unreal maps in UT.
That's possible without any mods.
Possible, yes, definitely. Feasible?

Uh... That'll be a hard pass.

Please understand. The issue here is that... I mean just look at the number of commands you have to know and the ini switch you have to make in order to get stuff to work.

Oldskool is far from ideal from a coding standpoint, it's borderline spaghetti but from an end-user standpoint, it's definitely preferable as it offers an easy to use frontend to run all that stuff.

Ividyon is right in recommending Oldskool.
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Masterkent
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by Masterkent »

Possible, yes, definitely. Feasible?

Uh... That'll be a hard pass.

Please understand. The issue here is that... I mean just look at the number of commands you have to know and the ini switch you have to make in order to get stuff to work.
The number is small for me. It's also possible to create a batch file like UT-Unreal1.bat with the following contents:

Code: Select all

start UnrealTournament.exe Vortex2?difficulty=3?Class=UnrealI.MaleOne?ini=UT-Unreal1.ini
and make two ini files:
UnrealTournament.ini - for UT
UT-Unreal1.ini (with modified DefaultGame) - for U1

Then whenever you want to start U1 game with your favourite difficulty, you just launch the batch file.
Oldskool is far from ideal from a coding standpoint, it's borderline spaghetti but from an end-user standpoint, it's definitely preferable as it offers an easy to use frontend to run all that stuff.
That completely depends on the user. For those people who know game settings/commands well, there is really no much difference.
Last edited by Masterkent on Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ividyon
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by ividyon »

Interesting insights! I did say I'm heavily paraphrasing everything for the layman, but of course technically there's a way to access things.

Crucially, that is not "combining Unreal and UT", but just flipping the switch off on everything UT, no?

If things are so easily accessible, what made Oldskool necessary in the first place, and popular enough to have multiple successful campaigns based off of it?
Last edited by ividyon on Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by []KAOS[]Casey »

what made Oldskool necessary in the first place
probably the lines of code missing to get weapons that aren't tournament weapons to fire on tournamentplayers -- except all that really did was enable UT weapons in U1, there was nothing stopping you from using unrealiplayer with an unreal 1 gametype in UT.

It's literally simple as this in ServerMove (and another block for AltFire):
if( TournamentWeapon(Weapon) != None )
{
Weapon.ForceFire();
}
else
{
Weapon.Fire(0);
}
that else block didn't exist in UT proper. I am pretty sure 469 fixes this so no mod at all is necessary to fix firing

the only other thing oldskool did thats of any note was replace projectiles with ones that spawn decals by replacing pawns' properties in new classes of the pawns, even though there are workarounds in UT with spawnnotify to replace projectiles without replacing pawns, among other methods (such as using Set in ConsoleCommand). the core of my problem is specifically how all the extra fancy stuff was handled. most of the "extra credit" changes contain... nightmare code. and i'm really not sure why.

there is also that part where ZoneInfo's default ZoneGroundFriction is different in UT and Unreal, but that largely shouldn't effect anything noticeably... I'd hope.

I made a proof of concept mod ages ago now where all I did was make a mutator to modify the incoming player classes to ones with that fix and a couple other misc fixes, like the end teleporter in endgame taking you to Vortex2 instead of Unreal.unr, ability to skip extremedgen because the map is bugged, attempt to fix extremedgen instead of skip, etc. it's extremely minimal and only does stuff to make the U1 campaign playable.
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ividyon
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by ividyon »

Right! My take-away is that there are legitimate problems that Oldskool addresses, and along with the fact that it integrates with regular UT99 without a need for INI changes, and can be used straight from the menu to jump into SP, it's still the recommended choice for regular users to jump into Unreal single-player with a UT99 install, while advanced purists can forego it with the tweaks listed above, and technically all of it can done better, but there is nothing to that beyond a "proof of concept". :)

Add to that the fact that Xidia, 7B, ONP etc. all depend on Oldskool, and we're back where we left off with my original post.
Last edited by ividyon on Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Smirftsch
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by Smirftsch »

wondering if I can encourage someone here to put this wisdom into wiki? :)
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
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eGo
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation

Post by eGo »

I use that for myself to run fast a map with U/UT99 ;)

Image

Download:
http://files.ego-creations.de/projects/RunMap.zip
Tool Developer & Software Engineer
https://www.ego-creations.de
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