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"Challenge"

Unreal Unreal and more Unreal
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Well....there were some unexpected Krall behavior issues in Bluff, apart from that there was one "raw" moment outright but I can't recall what it was. I suppose it gets overwhelmed by an overall positive experience. Oh yea the nali on the cross was of course difficult to shoot zoomed in, i must say on 225 it goes much smoother.

Tons of devilfish who were about to eat her and then eat me...oh my gooooooood...

And I still can't remember what it was....what was so raw...its like the map erased my memory.

Oh well not really raw as such but one thing that i recalled was that the superhealth was difficult to reach i had to get a running start from the wooden plank jump precisely on the little plank then onto the light and then to the secret...

oh now I recall what was raw...the skaarj down there just ran straight into the killing forcefield...

oh yea take that skaarjgunner and hsi eightball flew right into me and picked it up...

"mm nice"

hmm, didn't Micheal Rosen say that once? I must keep my thought free of him...

oh god i'm not feeling well i had expired milk and...*suddenly hallucinates Michael Rosen large sprite in the hallway*

OH NO

*micheal rosen* echoes all over the hall. Oh no...wish I had mininuke....3 2 1 all systems ready.

*summons 220 botpack warheadlauncher*

AHH YOU BITCH DIE!!!!

*reloads*

okay that didn't happen.

lol

okay but this is the first time where skaarjtrooper encounters get a little harder honestly. I mean 4 skaarjgunners in the tight corridors?

okay what is that box doing half inside the geometry up there? *RAW*

okay that's it...onto dasa...

EDIT: Watching part13 of yrex's run. kinda running behind there lol, but yea toilets...that gasbag was shitting there btw. Before he comes out he is right on the toilet in the "bathing chambers"
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I wanted to post that sunspire video still...

cantkillme

I imagined it with that song from Mojo Nixon that was on the Redneck Rampage soundtrack....

YOU CAN'T KILL ME
I WILL NOT DIE
NOT NOW
NO NEVER

Either way that part 15 video is really too long and more complicated for me to see now, i mean its like from livestream kind of...I'm getting to the end of skytown watching it but I might have to watch the rest later.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I've just had one of the hardest days in sucession in my life. So I of course didn't do this or other things. I will probably post a serious offtopic thread relating to that later but its really heavy stuff.

Also...I resumed watching. Saw the Velora Pass stuff, you didn't do the trick to get the stonetitan killed with the lava though, as in after the bridge falls you need to get onto the titan's throne to press it, lead him onto the bridge once its up and then lower it from the behind. Bluff Eversmoking doesn't mean to bluff, well its a rock formation that "bluffs", however it needs to be attached firmly to a top of a hill/mountain...the original bluff eversmoking fit this description but not after it was redesigned. And eversmoking could be a pun or it was supposed to smoke from the water/hot springs.

Bluff is a natural overhang.

EDIT: Also you missed the healing water at the sides at start of bluff, you could have healed yourself by stepping in.
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Neon_Knight
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Neon_Knight »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:57 pm I've just had one of the hardest days in sucession in my life. So I of course didn't do this or other things. I will probably post a serious offtopic thread relating to that later but its really heavy stuff.

Also...I resumed watching. Saw the Velora Pass stuff, you didn't do the trick to get the stonetitan killed with the lava though, as in after the bridge falls you need to get onto the titan's throne to press it, lead him onto the bridge once its up and then lower it from the behind. Bluff Eversmoking doesn't mean to bluff, well its a rock formation that "bluffs", however it needs to be attached firmly to a top of a hill/mountain...the original bluff eversmoking fit this description but not after it was redesigned. And eversmoking could be a pun or it was supposed to smoke from the water/hot springs.

Bluff is a natural overhang.

EDIT: Also you missed the healing water at the sides at start of bluff, you could have healed yourself by stepping in.
How should we call the Stone Titan trick? "Doing in a Mario" or "Doing in a Bowser"? (?)
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Neon_Knight wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:22 pm
Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:57 pm I've just had one of the hardest days in sucession in my life. So I of course didn't do this or other things. I will probably post a serious offtopic thread relating to that later but its really heavy stuff.

Also...I resumed watching. Saw the Velora Pass stuff, you didn't do the trick to get the stonetitan killed with the lava though, as in after the bridge falls you need to get onto the titan's throne to press it, lead him onto the bridge once its up and then lower it from the behind. Bluff Eversmoking doesn't mean to bluff, well its a rock formation that "bluffs", however it needs to be attached firmly to a top of a hill/mountain...the original bluff eversmoking fit this description but not after it was redesigned. And eversmoking could be a pun or it was supposed to smoke from the water/hot springs.

Bluff is a natural overhang.

EDIT: Also you missed the healing water at the sides at start of bluff, you could have healed yourself by stepping in.
How should we call the Stone Titan trick? "Doing in a Mario" or "Doing in a Bowser"? (?)
No clue lol
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Neon_Knight
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Neon_Knight »

I mean... you (the Mario) trigger the Stone Titan (the Bowser), then raise the bridge when it's lowered, try not to get killed by the ST, then cross the bridge, then lure the ST into stepping into the bridge... then you lower it while the ST is stepping into the bridge, sending the ST to the lava below.
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Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Neon_Knight wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:42 pm I mean... you (the Mario) trigger the Stone Titan (the Bowser), then raise the bridge when it's lowered, try not to get killed by the ST, then cross the bridge, then lure the ST into stepping into the bridge... then you lower it while the ST is stepping into the bridge, sending the ST to the lava below.
Yea I get it, but I don't know whether to call it whole after Mario or Bowser, lol.
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by yrex . »

My work | contact: ampoyrex at wp dot pl
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by yrex . »

My work | contact: ampoyrex at wp dot pl
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Finally had time to play again(I will watch the vids later). Dasa Mountain Ass is actually a nice level, this is where the game gets best when it comes to pace and stuff.

Also I just noticed...couldn't it have been, that cave down there, couldn't it have been like earlier version of this in that e3 presentation with the skaarjwarrior? I mean some people assumed it was skycaves but the shape of the cave plus the low water would suggest something like this. Or its still a different level.

Its hard to tell, some of those caves are similar.

Either way I reached Cellery of Dasa Cellars. Err..what?
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Neon_Knight
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Neon_Knight »

DASA
MOUNTAIN
ASS

LOL!
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Only the people that do nothing but criticize don't make mistakes. Do things. Make mistakes. Learn from them. And screw those who do nothing but throw poison and criticize.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Neon_Knight wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:25 pm DASA
MOUNTAIN
ASS

LOL!
Yea and then the Celery of Dasa lol.

Either way when reaching that level (i only played a little, too much going on irl atm), I noticed how there's no health apart from the superhealth secret until the place with the elevator and the Brute (Asmd combo works best against him).

Also is my memory failing or do I seem to recall in some versions/screenshot a weaponpowerup in dasa (additional one or for coop?), or was it just some mod that confuses me now?

Either way, the split of this level into two is in theory kind of bad and the only thing it is useful is for coop, remember that benabled wasn't on playerstarts during Unreal's release, only got introduced for botpack in version 220, for the team games like Assault...

One thing is that in the beta you could go back for health and ammo to restock and they really shouldn't have removed all that brekable glass, otherwise the final version of the level is greatly prefered to the beta one as its more polished but still...
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

My eleventh death....at the hands of the Stone Titan of Celery of Dasa Pass!

So yea...I resumed and of course...he killed me...evven though I was at the top, I don't know how he managed to hit me and gib me. I swear I didn't even see the boulder. Its like he just gibbed me out of nowhere....oh my god.

twelth death while trying to get more infighting happen...oh yea...this is gonna suck ass

oh fuck you, how did you get onto the stairs you krall? You were supposed to fight the guards at the helicopter base...i mean the titan...you BETTER GO BACK!

oh no...after killing him i have 88 of the ges ammo. also the titan bounced me up to the water tank but of course i can't open the underwater hatch due to the trigger being under it...

okay that sunovabich killed them all, i only killed one of them...good

cops...that's what the sunovabich uses in operations against the krall people...err
skaarjofficers maybe? either way enough with the malkavian mod references for now

ouch and thirteenth death after fatally wounding him

fourteenth death

GOT HIM. That stinger ammo is useful there.

Above the superhealth pool with sharks..devilfish i mean, its good to just lock on to them with eightball and problem solved forever.

especially because you can't really see them clearly when you use Glide as the water is so opaque here.

finished the ScoobyDooGear part with the spawning Krall...

to be continued
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I watched part 16. You made the same joke with the scubagear (or similar). Though I didn't watch it before. I suppose its kind of obvious, or some nali telepathy was at works here. Either way, was surprised to see you not knowing all the secrets in dasa cellars anymore or how to acces them properly. The one you used asmd boost for, well the trigger is at the torch with the same hallway as where the well is. It did change a little in the beta where its more of a matter of retracing your steps but here you can just push the barrel from around the corner in there and use it to jump at it, no weapon jumping required really. I know I'm a bit behind but I'll get to it eventually.
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Gamesharder
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Gamesharder »

I didn't know the torch secret for so long, it's kinda embarrassing lol
I mean I know that there was a secret, but I didn't know how to open the bars.
(Also I didn't think of opening the editor and finding it out either :P)
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I'm resuming the challenge for now, got through celleries of dasa pass and well...there was one odd thing i noticed when i finished the map and wanted to get back to the flak ammo up above...the lift was stuck, as in the one with the scooby doo gear.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Resuming this...sorry this took absolute ages. I went through the trio of "Nali" maps, I have to say Nali Castle aged so badly compared to other maps in Unreal. It never seemed to have much of coherent backstory in the first place just serving as a connecting piece. Very unlike cut maps like Triton which had developed backstory or even Bluff...some of which we never got to hear in the game but still...

Okay wow I was looking at the map in the editor of NaliC and the two barrels at the top floor in the outside area (before you ascent the tower, ah rampants its called), they are not empty, they have engine.ammo in them. Wow, that's a big mistake there shane. This map feels so wrong especially that it doesn't have the extra area seen in the flyby version and now it even has errors like these. So obviously those barrels were meant to hold ammo but they are holding an abstract class ammo instead? wow thats worse than those nullammos in morose etc.

But yea apparently the old editor was bugged and there was nothing stopping you from adding all that. I guess he wanted to add ASMDAmmo and misclicked. It would be the most logical thing really.

This map if they couldn't get it right it should have been replaced by one of the cut levels that were finished. This is literally the worst map by Shane honestly. It looks fairly well from the outside and I guess the outside was created first but that's the problem here too.

What about Triton and Dissent? Triton could have been placed there without a problem, they have the skaarj plane stuff from dissent there as well after all.

It would make sense if Triton and/or Dissent would fill the slot, but they somehow wanted to keep the demon crater stuff tied with this nali castle stuff.

But yea I think it is misstep and more time should have been used to expand this map, because it doesn't feel right at all.
edit:
Also...survived it without dying, those three maps. Though I have to say that my skills are a bit lower now. Out of practice I guess. Been playing too much botmatches and not actual game, with the 221 beta ut stuff.
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Hellkeeper »

Why do you talk badly about NaliCast? This is one of my favourite maps from the game. :'(
You must construct additional pylons.
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Gamesharder
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Gamesharder »

I agree with Hellkeeper here. Nali Castle is iconic and a fun map.
There must have been a logical explanation why some things are like that. Like why they decided not open the balcony part where the Nali is in the flyby version, and the barrel was just a small mistake. There's a lot of things to look when playtesting a map as big like this and Shane just missed it. It doesn't even affect gameplay, there's plenty of ammo anyway...

Besides, we don't even know if Triton was finished, and if it WAS finished why haven't we seen any screenshot of it? That dock map with the boat could be something else all we know. Which wouldn't make so much sense anyway, since the second part of Triton was supposed to be in an underground cavern.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Gamesharder wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:51 pm I agree with Hellkeeper here. Nali Castle is iconic and a fun map.
There must have been a logical explanation why some things are like that. Like why they decided not open the balcony part where the Nali is in the flyby version, and the barrel was just a small mistake. There's a lot of things to look when playtesting a map as big like this and Shane just missed it. It doesn't even affect gameplay, there's plenty of ammo anyway...

Besides, we don't even know if Triton was finished, and if it WAS finished why haven't we seen any screenshot of it? That dock map with the boat could be something else all we know. Which wouldn't make so much sense anyway, since the second part of Triton was supposed to be in an underground cavern.
That was just an earlier screenshot. When it wasn't yet supposed to be completely underground, but maybe there was supposed to be an open ceiling. Many of those maps in the level descriptions document were already started before the document was written, including isv kran etc. Its not the starting point of those maps, it was already a revised document. It definitely was Triton from an earlier version. And the other version of triton we most likely have the fortressentrance of, when that was being re-designed. But that is more of a theory than that other map which was Triton. Its also from the same time as that map with the early eightball the skytown map with the clock tower. The clock tower is mentioned in the design document for skytown. This was already an earlier version of the "reboot" unreal just some maps like skytown and bluff still got a complete overhaul later.

NaliC is just not a good map the way it ended up. We know that Shane was not even supposed to do that map and might not even have started it. He filled in a slot for someone else. That's been clear all the time. He got hired for the expansion pack which they already started in 1997 for some odd reason or two, to have it more or less ready on release but the plans diverged. I find NaliC to be the worst Shane's map.

It looks good on the outside and it has some good pacing like the semi underground part etc. But...I also know that some of those things were implemented better in a cut level that I played back in 1998. And it seems at the last moment some of those ideas got put into NaliC to "spice it up" but it just falls apart for me. It also barely has any story and the messages are too obvious. NaliBoat is still better and so is NaliLord in terms of consistency. Just the middle part of the level just doesn't do it for me. Its just one of the many Nali Castles and it even lacks a proper name, unlike all the other castles that were cut or are mentioned in the novels.

This obviously had some elements of earlier castles incorporated in it (remember the pre-reboot version had even two major castles there and one before the mothership as well, but it was planned as real hub with a consistency, the post-reboot version just didn't end up that way), sometimes shoehorned like the bridge sequence with krall which was actually supposed to be part of the shareware castle and that you could shoot the krall down using stunner. Yea that's right I'm forgetting about the unreal bible shareware one, the pre-reboot stuff, so yea that technically makes it three shareware versions they once planned/were making, in total...lol

NaliC just feels too empty and rushed and unfinished. Hell even the part under the bridge should have been explorable, there are even some windows there. We never see that. I only remember one map ever partially exporing that and that was the deathmatch version made out of the flyby version (its called dmshanescastle or something iirc? it was a level included in a lot of the early userlevel compilations including "unreality") and it wasn't so well done there but you get the point.

I know levels like DasaCellars have barely any story but that level is not empty and it keeps you on edge all the time, besides those are cellars of dasa and originally it was just one level with Dasa, it makes sense there are less story elements there because its a damn dungeon....

Also not seeing a screenshot of something is a weak argument. There were barely any screenshots of some of the released maps in the game in the first place (like some of the deatmatch maps, there was never any screenshot of some ut maps too like ctf-crucible?). They didn't make screenshots of absolutely everything and some stuff got lost like screenshots. Not everything went into magazines either.

This is going into circular logic.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Hellkeeper wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:35 am Why do you talk badly about NaliCast? This is one of my favourite maps from the game. :'(
Imagine an alternative timeline, where...Gordon Ramsey works as some internal QA member at Epic.
He examines Shane's NaliC map carefuly, including a t3d output. Sees the Engine.Ammo in two barrels.
"You should be ashamed."
"Fuckin' Raw!" Sees the empty bedrooms with only one being used in practice with the rifle and rifleammo and the skaarj.
"Raw!"
Sees all the inconsistencies and weird triggering including the way the SkaarjBerserker sometimes spawns.

"It's fuckin' raw!"

NaliC ends up being cut from the game before release. In that timeline.

Because of Gordon Ramsay.

lol

EDIT: Not to forget...also the lift at the tower...not just the problem that occured in version 220 (until OU 227 that is) that the texture became defaulttexture, but also...
the original texture was the 256x256 version of the jbarrel1 texture from Unreal beta. WHen they resized the texture the lift looks odd but its supposed to have the 256x256 version of that skin which looks alright on the lift.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: "Challenge"

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Sorry for another post but apparently the 256x256 texture got restored at least in 227j. I didn't even notice. So now NaliC looks even better of course. Part of me wonders though whether they originally intended to have it with the even older barreltexture (the one i used in quadnew.u, originally it was also used for a version of sconce but fits barrel as well).

We don't have any really old beta with nalic to confirm this though however. But it would fit perhaps even better. But changing that in unreali would be too much and would change the look of barrel itself to a nonsensical one. Since its not just size difference in this case.
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