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Leaving the community - moving forward

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azn
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Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by azn »

Hello, this post is not whinning but something I think I owe to the Unreal community as I met many good people here.

As the topic says, I am taking a break from Unreal related stuff - without planning to go back. The thing I am very aware of is that most of you don't even recognize me as a part of the community; never was very active - that's for sure. In the past I was running 2 Unreal servers, and recently like 1 year ago I started my new DM server again but it did not last long. The main reason I am leaving is that I do not really play unreal anymore and I do not enjoy the game as much as I used to - especially online. I also do not like the status of the engine, only one people working on it - Smirftsch - you rock mate! I seriously don't like EPIC attitude to the Unreal community and almost complete ignorance toward it's existence. If not the community this game would've been dead for years now. These are the things that push me away the most from this game/community.

It also pisses me off knowing how much of an effort Smirftsch put into the OldUnreal project and how some people reacted to his hard work in the past years. I know they are idiots but still - what he is still doing is remarkable and I cannot imagine being such a moron to react in an negative work towards this guy when it comes to Unreal.

At this point I would like to mention something that only a few people knew about. That means Smirftsch, Krull0r and a few guys from ISV Unreal clan. For some time I wanted to produce a nice DM map for all of us to play, later on I named it DmRuin. Years, yes - years passed - and I was sometimes working on it - sometimes not. Had big problems with motivation as I was not playing the game much and almost did not play online at all. For me there was no real reason to carry on working on the map. I attach the latest version of the map to this message so you all can see what I've came up with. I remember when that idea to make a map came to me. Once while playing on one of DOG servers and I was complaining about music on servers and low quality of some custom maps - it led to an argument with Strategy-(DOG)-; sorry about that mate. Yet that day I thought I will make a map and spend as much time as I need to make it worth playing with good flow, nice look etc. so all can see that one's first map can be impressive. Well, as you all can see - it did not work. The work on the map went very slow and finally it ended with unfinished product. Later on we got along with Strategy-(DOG)- and he helped me a lot with server related stuff so thank you for that friend.

Would also like to thank all of you for being here with me, playing with me and having a nice chats on discord - sometimes even playing online together. Special thanks go to:
ISV-makemeunreal, Krull0r, Smirftsch, Strategy-(DOG)-, ISV-GamesHarder, Nicola-(DOG)- and Hellkeeper
Probably I should've mentioned someone alse as well but I have no one in my mind while writing this post.

As some of you probably know; I used to play Quake3/Defrag series a bit. Probably I would move to yet another Id Software game scene - another game that I remember from my youth - even before the world ever heard about Unreal. That game is classic Doom - it also have great community gathered around it and for some time now my DM Odamex server is there up and running. If by any chance some of you play Doom online feel free to join me for a match or two - my server has my nickname in the name therefore it will be easy to find it. I really enjoy open sourced engine - and the company that cares about their past products and the community that grew around it.

I wish all the best to the whole OldUnreal community and all the good people I've met here, stay safe friends.

ps. this is my 100th post on OldUnreal forums - how ironic
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Smirftsch
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Smirftsch »

Thanks a lot for your kind words!
It's the community keeping the game alive, just giving my part :)

I've seen many come and go over the years, but let me say this:
We will miss you m8 :'( :'(

And if you ever feel like coming back nobody will complain that you said that you won't, haha

How do they say... live long and prosper
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
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strategy-(DOG)-
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by strategy-(DOG)- »

You'll always be welcome, azn! And never say never.... hope to see you back for good some day! ;)
It was a pleasure to discuss stuff with you and I surely didn't mind debating you.

Best wishes and take good care my friend!
WOOF!
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I can't say I really knew you (which I find odd unless I knew you with another name, given that you were around at least since 2009), but I perfectly understand. I can't even run the game myself atm given my IRL situation and all the hardships I keep having, but I still do my best to at least recover old content for people to play and helping people debug/fix stuff where possible and still managing my project.

So despite all that I still put priority to the game, perhaps a bit unhealthy but goddamn I feel like everything else I try to do is a failure but Unreal stuff...
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Blu3Haz3
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Blu3Haz3 »

DmRuin, I think I remember playing that map quite a few times against SirFragalot. Got one of my first wins against him on that map. It was a two story map with the mid section being mostly pillars, it had a kevlar suit, shield belt, body armor, super health spread out in different sections. That was actually a pretty good 1v1 map.

I feel the same way about Epic Games. Years ago I think I and many others posted to Epic Games on their old forum to try and get them to do another Unreal project that would allow the community to get involved. I'm not saying what we said accomplished that, but it wasn't but a year later that they started the UT4 community project which made me feel a little hope that they weren't giving up on us. A thought really occurred to me though when I made the post to Epic Games that the reason they keep failing to market Unreal Tournament games is not because people don't like Unreal, its because they don't care about Arena FPS games at all. A SP Unreal game with similar gameplay to that of Fallout, Farcry, Doom Eternal\Doom 2016 or the Elder Scrolls series has so much compatibility with modern standards of gaming that it just seems entirely idiotic that they have not explored that idea yet. Fortnite was an adaptation of Arena FPS meta with health, shields and fictional style gun battles mixed with a modern trending gameplay variation commonly known as Battle Royale and aspects of zoomer games like Minecraft. This is literally all the proof anyone needs to gather to know that you can take some of the best aspects of Arena FPS games and combine them with modern trends to create a very popular product. A lot of kids love Fortnite because it has those Arena FPS variables in it that they're entirely unfamiliar with, they just have no clue that it does have Arena FPS embedded in it. The 'only' reason Arena FPS games are unloved by so many modern gamers is simply because they aren't willing to send expensive keyboards and mice to the landfill each month. Fortnite took away 'some' of that rage inducing shit while maintaining the good aspects.

The only reason Epic Games even gave up on Unreal was because of Unreal Tournament, UT is a game that was only niche in the era of Arena Shooters, which are dead. Every time anyone ever mentioned Unreal, it was Unreal Tournament that came to mind, and every time they announced another Unreal game they pumped out another Arena Shooter game that has no compatibility with zoomers and millennials of today. People commonly conflate Unreal with UT and that we have to wait for Arena FPS to become popular again, that expectation that Unreal 'must' be an Arena FPS game is why it won't be revisited for a long time. If Arena Shooters were to get popularity again, much like what Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal accomplished, it would require Single Player games like those for Arena FPS to ever really gain traction again. There is supposedly another Quake SP game coming out here soon, so be watching for where that goes... it should have multiplayer. So I imagine if that game goes well, you could see Epic Games turn its head back in our direction, but if they try and market another UT game right away it will fail immediately. They have to get people on board the Unreal train again first.

Also, the statement about Smirftsch being more dedicated to Unreal than the actual company that gave us the game is pretty dead on. Idk if Smirftsch is still fighting his cancer, but it speaks volumes that someone under that circumstance is more dedicated to this game and it's community than Epic HQ. I'm not going to roast Epic Games too much more, but they haven't even commended Smirftsch for his efforts to save this community. He deserves so much more praise for that. I haven't been active in Unreal in years, people knew me as Evo, but seeing this game silently go off into the abyss is such a bloody shame. thx Epic Games!
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I still remember when Epic changed something the other way around after I gave my feedback on their IRC once.(about ut4)

Like I told them that I'd think it would be best if looking up and down was configurable in the options in menu, because I had to edit the ini file manually.

I explained that this is because I used a laptop and a laptop keyboard and it is best if you lack a gamepad to control the game fully by keyboard. It takes some practice but you can actually play well using keyboard as I did with other titles.

Before you know, they made it impossible to even edit the ini by hand(as it would otherwose revert), that seemed like a really jerk move and honestly I didn't believe the working closely with community aspect that much as other people seemed to, because not so much of community ended up being approved and there was even an internal conflict within Epic about what direction to take with UT.

So yea I should have been silent about it but who knew they'd pull that and try to control the players way of interfacing with the game. Basically they force you to either use keyboard and mouse or gamepad. No other alternatives. I don't care how little people do it that way the possibility should be there...I can perfectly play Unreal using just a keyboard and have been doing so for the past 10 years almost.

I remember when gaming wasn't about being in shiny overly bright rooms doing the same stuff the other players do, when gaming was about doing your own thing inventing your own way of playing and controlling the games. So to me this change of attitude and atmosphere is really off putting and it doesn't help that many of the ut4 maps themselves reek the atmosphere of overly bright and shiny modern computer stores...
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Buster »

All the best in the future. And thank you for doing your part in keeping this community going with your servers and the hours you sat in front of the editor. It's been kind people like yourself dedicating the time, resources, and creative energy that's given life to our beloved game. You have made a difference, and in some small way made our lives a little richer.
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Blu3Haz3
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Blu3Haz3 »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:36 am I still remember when Epic changed something the other way around after I gave my feedback on their IRC once.(about ut4)

Like I told them that I'd think it would be best if looking up and down was configurable in the options in menu, because I had to edit the ini file manually.

I explained that this is because I used a laptop and a laptop keyboard and it is best if you lack a gamepad to control the game fully by keyboard. It takes some practice but you can actually play well using keyboard as I did with other titles.

Before you know, they made it impossible to even edit the ini by hand(as it would otherwose revert), that seemed like a really jerk move and honestly I didn't believe the working closely with community aspect that much as other people seemed to, because not so much of community ended up being approved and there was even an internal conflict within Epic about what direction to take with UT.

So yea I should have been silent about it but who knew they'd pull that and try to control the players way of interfacing with the game. Basically they force you to either use keyboard and mouse or gamepad. No other alternatives. I don't care how little people do it that way the possibility should be there...I can perfectly play Unreal using just a keyboard and have been doing so for the past 10 years almost.

I remember when gaming wasn't about being in shiny overly bright rooms doing the same stuff the other players do, when gaming was about doing your own thing inventing your own way of playing and controlling the games. So to me this change of attitude and atmosphere is really off putting and it doesn't help that many of the ut4 maps themselves reek the atmosphere of overly bright and shiny modern computer stores...
Yeah that sounds like Epic Games these days. They sort of went from a company that encouraged more customization and user control, to a company that restricts commands and access to variables in configuration files via games like Fortnite. Although they may be going back to their old ways since they're introducing Fortnite to the Unreal Engine tools for modders and mappers. I don't know, the restriction of config files in UT4 does sound like a dick move by them, maybe unintentionally so but it does beg the question. What the heck happened to Epic Games? They seemed almost as close to the community in the earlier days as did iD Software to Quake and Doom. Perhaps that close bond between the competitive Quake scene and the developers at events like QuakeCon helped the developers maintain an understandinng of issues that competitive and casual gamers struggle with and features they also enjoy. They seem to have cracked the code behind making a modernized version of something like what we all played growing up, but in a Singleplayer format I guess. As for the bright maps in UT4, that is really just a competitive consideration, people across the board in games like Quake and Unreal have always used either bright player skins or bright maps so people don't have as much trouble aiming at moving targets. Are you talking about maps like Lea? Or the UT4 Deck map? They're pretty poorly textured and brightly lit.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Well yea but I meant the general style, I mean it does fit with playing at the conventions, I mean even maps like that Outpost map. It's all very shiny and "polished" to ridiculousness, but a lot of modern game stores/conventions feel similar so it kind of matches, but that's not what makes good game in my opinion, it should be customizable but optional with the brightmaps and such. But indeed I talked not about that but the feel of the maps. It just all feels a bit washed out and impersonal and like everyone would be a robot instead of personality. I kind of had a problem with the idea of ut2003 of moving ot towards sports feel, but fortunately the gameplay felt better than to be too much of a chore, but that's only thanks to tons of playtesting efforts, some of the ut2 betas had a rather bland gameplay and it could have been way worse. Even though that was mostly DE thing it still counts.

Did the deck map get even finished in UT4 or did it stay in the pre alpha state? If in pre alpha that's to have been changed still, but yea...

I have to admit after the 2016 versions I didn't play UT4 myself only watched gameplay vids. It just didn't go the direction I was expecting, my favorite was the 2015 version.
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Hyper »

Hi Leo,

I just like to leave a "thank you" for all your contributions over the years. Nobody was as good as you when it comes to your ability to come up with old gems, facts and history from Unreal's long history. Without your work, many gems from Unreal's past would probably never been uncovered. Last years I did not have the time and attention to your contributions as they might have deserved because I largely moved on to other interests as well as real-life events (Hence my servers being in somewhat of a "maintenance mode" for years now) but that does not mean that I don't have appreciation for your work.

I know there sometimes has been some drama about your personality and/or your expressions. This probably still is very much sensitive material here in the Unreal community. Therefore it is hard to say something about this without hurting someones feelings or opinions. Without saying anything about you (I don't know you well enough to have any right to say anything about you): As someone who is gifted with the autism spectrum myself I at least know that it is easy to get lost in the details or misunderstood in communication. You probably haven't been had an optimal dice roll yourself in life.

Anyway, wish you the best in your personal journey. Take care.

Regards,

Hyper
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

It wasn't my leaving message actually, it was from azn but you know my own situation and I might be leaving soon as well in practice. So I'll keep your message in mind in practice. Not that I want to leave as such. And even then it might not be permanent. Its just in my current situation I can't even run Unreal anymore even though I did for like couple of weeks and then it ended again....

EDIT: I wanted to add a couple of things. First of all I was never diagnosed with autism Hyper. Second, I know how quick people are to diagnose someone with autism in the netherlands and then revert it, thanks to my partner.
But I think you can see that when people leave me be the way I am, nothing serious happens. A lot of people who stressed me out and pushed me certain direction are gone from my life or the unreal sites in general. Yes I do have tendency to get into outbursts after an attack, which usually makes more people on the edge and attack me or for my opinions etcetera and for what I say during such affects. But that's just it, you can put a label on it if you want, but the best anyone ever said that it is was some kind of maladaptive "disorder" which is open for interpretation.
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by azn »

Thank you all for your kind words, I also wish all of you all the best in the future. This is great community and I hope it will continue to grow. Maybe even one day the situation with the Unreal engine will change so it will allow all willing community members to work on it.

Take care friends :)
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[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by []KAOS[]Casey »

azn wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:26 pm Maybe even one day the situation with the Unreal engine will change so it will allow all willing community members to work on it.
but that's been the case forever? the patch got to where it is as a collaborative effort with a bunch of people who never had and never will have the source

a large amount of bugs existed in uscript alone or could be exploited through black box testing

oh well, your OP indicates you think only one person worked on 227 anyway.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Besides the leaked "unofficial" sources there isn't a version of 224-above source code avaiable though (until UT, but again a leak). So he meant everyone on the team at least having acess to the complete source code of the current project (like live trees on vpn or github or whatever there is these days).

I think that if Fortnite wasn't such a commercial success that Tim would have somehow opened up the cleaned up UE1 sources or something and there wouldn't be a problem. But Unreal as games are obviously like a forgotten storage dump now. People already said that with Gears the Unreal stuff has moved as a "stepchild" kind of thing but now its way worse.

edit: But if anyone really wants and uses social sites like twitter you could send him a message. I mean after all people like luke got over to him on twitter, he obviously doesn't respond to e-mails or doesn't have time to check them all, but on twitter he seems to be responding to people in general.

Now its really sad that it happened, I mean that he got luke's attention and then blocked him, over something completely non serious and non important, so I'd say someone should give it a try talking to Tim about things that matter. Instead of someone sending him gender-swapped picture and calling it "Tina Sweetey" or whatever lol.
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azn
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by azn »

[]KAOS[]Casey wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:45 am
azn wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:26 pm Maybe even one day the situation with the Unreal engine will change so it will allow all willing community members to work on it.
but that's been the case forever? the patch got to where it is as a collaborative effort with a bunch of people who never had and never will have the source

a large amount of bugs existed in uscript alone or could be exploited through black box testing

oh well, your OP indicates you think only one person worked on 227 anyway.

Well, maybe you are right - I am not that much into who is working on the source code, I just got that impression over the years. Funny thing is that after telling you all about me leaving the community you all responded with a very nice way and today I joined OldUnreal's discord - seems like I need to put Unreal a bit behind but probably you will still see me here and there from time to time after all - also, I noticed today that version 227j have HUD scaling implemented that for me is very important and drastically increases the enjoyment one's can get from the game. No matter how active I will remain or would I be active at all - I would love to see what 227j brings along - so far it looks very promising.
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Hyper »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:15 pm It wasn't my leaving message actually, it was from azn but you know my own situation and I might be leaving soon as well in practice. So I'll keep your message in mind in practice. Not that I want to leave as such. And even then it might not be permanent. Its just in my current situation I can't even run Unreal anymore even though I did for like couple of weeks and then it ended again....

EDIT: I wanted to add a couple of things. First of all I was never diagnosed with autism Hyper. Second, I know how quick people are to diagnose someone with autism in the netherlands and then revert it, thanks to my partner.
But I think you can see that when people leave me be the way I am, nothing serious happens. A lot of people who stressed me out and pushed me certain direction are gone from my life or the unreal sites in general. Yes I do have tendency to get into outbursts after an attack, which usually makes more people on the edge and attack me or for my opinions etcetera and for what I say during such affects. But that's just it, you can put a label on it if you want, but the best anyone ever said that it is was some kind of maladaptive "disorder" which is open for interpretation.
I notice yes, I wonder how I could have missed that. ::)
And about the autism spectrum: I was strictly referring to myself there. I'm not in the position to make statements like that about others.
A well, consider my message as a praise to your contributions over the years.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Leaving the community - moving forward

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I have been considering replying one more time, but..I feel uneasy about it. For multiple reasons. One of them is a presence of a certain person who will most likely read this. And that person doesn't ...quite get me. Still thinking I'm all about "crusades" and such.

I don't need praise as such, what I'd rather wish for is that people would truly understand me instead of being patronistic. I'm not speaking about any of you in this thread, this is purely about someone who is right now just an observer...

And I also wish for the legacy to continue, but I know that in practice the same things that I do won't be continued or picked up in a meaningful way. Nobody without me will step in to convert those 220 or below mods like fearbetafinal (only rescued thanks to gamestar but it has tons of new models), the various wod files, other misc files and finally, steele dawn...

I know that because in my absence during that year yrex gave up on upsx and possibly thought that i just left out of my own accord.

So, I do what is necessary and what I see as necessary to be done. And I will do my best to do so in my limited time. But then it will be over. It will abrubtly end like last time and I might not be back in half a year after being gone last time from life and everything. Most of you don't know what I'm talking about right now because I only explained on a specific forum what happened to me in 2019.

This time its different and a little worse. Those are not the same people or exact same people involved but what happened has long term consequences. And its not a matter of some offered windows laptop that can magically fix my life and ensure this.

Also...I don't need to go on crusades...unfortunately the current human world is so busy doing that on itself.

This crusade is against me.

Don't judge me and don't second guess me, just take what I say and don't fill in the blanks.

Thank you.

The clock is ticking. And this time it will all be different.

I will say or do things nobody will expect me to say. I needed practical help and the person who offered one is obviously not a "man of his word".

Thanks to this things stalled and new things happened that I had no control over or even part of. Yet they say I did. And I know it will make someone very happy.

Since some people I trusted and considered friends have turned too snobbish or outright rejected me because they suddenly saw me as some kind of monster or just couldn't live with the reality anymore.

One of the problems of human subconsciousness is that its letting people daily deceive themselves about facts of life. This whole big separation. Why some people can be easily influenced or hypnotised. The whole fragile existence of memories and how drugs can alter some details "just enough". How people abuse this in institutions and will lie to you about what you're being given or choose a similarly looking pill in order to fool you. That happened to me once. Even though this was not approved and without my consent and I rejected their further lies. They fear me because I can't be completely turned into mush and convinced.

I would also be lying that I wasn't affected in any way by the recent floods in europe. A place I have gotten very used to and where I had planned to make a move has been turned unrecognizable to say the least...

And any court I stand in front of will get to know that I am in contempt of the court, because they haven't learned from their own mistakes. This time nobody will be allowed to judge me. I and myself alone know who I am and what I did and what I did not. Nobody else can tell that. If its not true then its not true, but nobody will ever be allowed to say such filthy lies about myself. And turn everything against me, even though I have been physically hurt and had to bite the pain of having broken bones and such. But...filthy shady people have friends and power and money. But money alone doesn't help anyone.

days of future passed...not past
twilight time


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_ ... lues_song)

I hope that has any good sound quality, can't hear it myself atm as I'd waste my limited bandwidth, hmm.

But it is a good parting song in a way and its most likely one of my last posts before some stuff goes down.

But anyways, you'll hardly find anyone who has gotten through such a "character developement" in just a few years. Had to adjust some of my old convictions and what I thought of myself and how the world is and that even someone who you might meet in a sorting cell room with 30 other people making you feel little less different than in some concentration camp, in this modern "free and liberal" world in the city of Brno, before they decide where you belong, and find out that person is a murderer and yet he ends up saving your life, that is touching. That is really eye-opening in fact.

Just let that sink in, imagine ending up like that thanks to buerocrats making errors mostly and seeing it from the inside, having suddenly lot of time to read through law books as that's the only thing meaningful you have left and realize how the entire charade works and turns its wheels.

And what they all try to get away with. And how they will just punish you to feel superior.

And then..the "hand of the law" feels ignorant and less soothing than the murderer that just happens to save your life...
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