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"UED2 help" help needed

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Smirftsch
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"UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

If anyone could help me generating a global help for UED2 in windows help format so that I can bind it into UED2 help menu even this gap would be finally filled. But for me it's to much work to collect now info over all this out of the different tutorials, ask for permission from the authors of these and and and...

The content could be maybe collected in the wiki and then transformed later. Some stuff is already in the wiki anyway.
So it would be more easy for anyone to participate.

In the end all of this just needs to be put together.

It's pretty urgent because 227g is mostly done by now already and I just realized yesterday that this is still missing.

Any volunteers?
Last edited by Smirftsch on Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pyro
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Pyro »

Im sorry i can not offer you a Help file, but perhaps someone who will actually write it, want to include a link to a video tutorial i made. Might be useful!
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[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by [§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ »

I can make a help file but I doubt I'd ever finish collecting the stuff, so if anyone collects the stuff, I can go through it, sort it and compile the help file.
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Shivaxi
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Shivaxi »

you could always add links to tutorials online like Wolf's tutorials and such
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Smirftsch
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

of course, but what if these pages change? If they shut down?
Then those static links will be completely useless.
Having weblinks is always nice, but to have all necessary basic stuff directly included is priceless.
Last edited by Smirftsch on Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hellkeeper
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Hellkeeper »

Depending on what you need, I could help (I have a lot of spare time). Although I think you should just aim at explanations on the tools, and links to OldUnreal tutorials and a few others, not creating an encyclopedia (which)
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Smirftsch
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

i wanted to have at least the most basic tutorials included, some explanations about the buttons, some simple howto.
Maybe as addition the new 227 features, many are in the wiki already.
So that:
a) new mappers can learn the most basic mapping things
b) experienced mappers can have a look howto use 227's new features.

While a) is of course the more important part and b) would be nice but isn't vital.
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Shivaxi
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Shivaxi »

of course, but what if these pages change? If they shut down?
Then those static links will be completely useless.
Having weblinks is always nice, but to have all necessary basic stuff directly included is priceless.
Then perhaps import the work from the webpage into the help section in the UED itself? ;)
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WARP-10
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by WARP-10 »

There already is a help file program that can be installed and it runs from the help button in UED but the content of the one I had is or was very limited.

I'll see if I can find where I originally got it. If I remember it was open to be modified and added to also.

I think this might be it:

http://unreal.gamedesign.net/tutorials/ued.shtml

"If you don't have it already, download the Unreal Unoffical Help This will "pop up" when you press F1 in the editor. This is the latest version 05."
Last edited by WARP-10 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Smirftsch
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

i have this file too in my downloads, but iirc its for ued1 not ued2. Besides it's indeed very limited...
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[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by [§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ »

of course, but what if these pages change? If they shut down?
Then those static links will be completely useless.
Having weblinks is always nice, but to have all necessary basic stuff directly included is priceless.
Then perhaps import the work from the webpage into the help section in the UED itself? ;)
I'm pretty sure most of the work is copyrighted, and getting the permission to use it from the people that are long done with updating the tutorials and not even paying attention to them is not an easy job lol.

And releasing something, especially a whole patch, without original author's permission, would not be nice.

But then again, you could do any of the two things: seek the author and ask permission, or just copy everything.

Or not use a help file, although this solution is not a good one...
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Smirftsch
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

that's exactly the problem. So someone needs to do it :)
Or just use the other tutorials as source and write an own help, always can put some list of reference into the help, so anyone can be happy.
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Jâçkrâßßit »

I'd be interested in writing some simple text based tutorials for 227g editor. I'm assuming pictures can not be included....

because I'm going on vacation, I might not have access to the internet for the next 5 days. Instead, I can work offline and do this on my freetime while visiting family. Please give me more information on what tutorials are needed precisely ASAP and I'll get it done in a timely manner... else it might take a few weeks before anything happens.
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[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by [§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ »

I'd assume:

- Mapping (basic and advanced)
- UScript basics (such as function declarations, etc.)
- Editor commands (especially undocumented ones such as Mode BrushSheer, etc.)
- FAQ (wiki has some already: http://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page#Unreal_FAQ) I think it's ok if you use that as a reference, or even use the same text
- About 227 and UEd2

Something else if you think of it. :)
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Smirftsch
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

I'm pretty sure windows help can include pictures also, so this shouldn't be a problem.
I think at least all Buttons should be explained and some basic mapping howto is the most important.
Anything else what [ch356]h[ch283]x[ch272]â[ch341]k[ch347]î[ch273][ch283][ch341] mentioned would be great :)
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[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by [§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ »

Also if you don't wanna use windows' help compiler manually with feeding RTF files to it, use [url=http://www.helpscribble.com/]this program[/url].
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WARP-10
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by WARP-10 »

The Unreal Wiki I think would be the best source since it is offered as:

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Unreal_Wiki:Copyrights

"All content on the Unreal Wiki is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial ShareAlike 3.0 license."

When you click on that link you see:

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

"You are free...to Share to copy, distribute and transmit the work"

So filling a help file with useful stuff would be a copy and paste project plus I found a few freeware programs for making help files.
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Smirftsch
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

then maybe you could work together with Jâçkrâßßit and send me something soon?
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WARP-10
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by WARP-10 »

I walked right into that one didn't I?

OK, I'll try to contribute.

I sent Jâçkrâßßit a PM so waiting to hear back from them.
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by WARP-10 »

I should mention that I can't do or don't know any coding or programming to make a help file work with the help button inside UED 2.0 (or any other for that matter) so I don't know how they made the first help file work in UED 1 from inside the program.
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[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by [§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ »

I should mention that I can't do or don't know any coding or programming to make a help file work with the help button inside UED 2.0 (or any other for that matter) so I don't know how they made the first help file work in UED 1 from inside the program.
That's not your part of the job. ;) Integrating it into UEd needs coding that feature (if it already isn't coded), and coding a feature needs access to UEd source code. :P
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WARP-10
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by WARP-10 »


That's not your part of the job. ;) Integrating it into UEd needs coding that feature (if it already isn't coded), and coding a feature needs access to UEd source code. :P
I hit F1 and it looks like its already coded to a target but it can't find the unrealed.hlp.
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Smirftsch
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Smirftsch »

it won't work this way since it seems that it was never really finished. Your part of the job is to create an as much as possible complete help content. Building in then is mine :)
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WARP-10
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by WARP-10 »

Most of the info I have ever found on the difference between UED1, 2 and 3 is cosmetic, being the interface and program stability with only few additions along the way like the 2D Shape Editor added to 2.0, the static mesh browser, a multi browser and a search function.

The only real help file that is needed is explaining the updates and changes such as in UED3 you can start with a solid world to subtract from or an empty world to add too.

The same goes for the tutorials but yet a different game is used, they are perfectly interchangeable except you have a different variety of textures, actors and scripts.

Plus, with UED new or old having a reputation to crash, having a help file running from inside the program increases the odds of crashing and I learned long ago that if I was using some level editing assistance it paid to keep it separate. Even if on another computer sitting on the side and there's no shortage of oldies to use for that since I have an i810 on the side that I use for literally tons of stuff.

I looked at the help file produced by Skarz in 1998 and in the readme.txt

"I just took a bunch of info from the official Unreal Tech page and put it all in a nice neat help file that can be run from UnrealED for quick reference. I offer this for free.

...

If you pass this manual around, please do so with the three original files (unrealed.hlp, unrealed.cnt, and this ReadMe.txt)"

This help file (ued_help05.zip http://www.atomicgamer.com/files/5480/ued_help05-zip ) is fairly comprehensive.

I find a lot of comments about the near lack of tutorials for UED 2.0 saying that this is because it is unnecessary since 99% of the difference between the two is the interface and a few added goodies and no help file is really needed for that since if the user can't split the difference between the two interfaces rather quickly a tutorial that goes any further wouldn't do them any good anyway.

Using this help file in UED 2.0 is "passing it around" I suppose so, I would use it.

Starting from scratch for 2.0 can be done yeah but not "soon" as it would involve gathering info (info that already exists in tutorials anyway) and new screen shots that are relevant or swipe other peoples images and the latter two aren't feasibile without permission.

Plus, instructions on how to build a map in any version of the editor (most people make that maps who are using or are going to use 227 already know UnealEd and don't need tutorials) have been so oft written by so many people, it would be very difficult to write a new tutorial that didn't sound like a reworded version of someone else's work because there are only so many ways to explain how to go through, for example, a 5 step procedure, and that would be repeated for every different function in the editor.

Only an explanation of new stuff is really needed for a help file in 2.0 because even Wolf's Tutorials (a 1,000 years from now the aliens will probably be using Wolf's Tuts to re-visualize our demolished cities, lol) still apply for making a map.

So to be honest with you, other than that I don't think it's a good idea to make a band new help file in such a short span of time.

Would be nice to have one but isn't a priority plus it's 7 years old.

As an example, here is a 4 page tutorial on UED3, which can easily be used on UED1 just as easily as Wolf's Tuts could be used on UED1, 2 or 3.

Edit...

Ooops, forgot the link:

http://gridinstitute.com/bc/mt35801/class2/basics.html
Last edited by WARP-10 on Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Buster
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Re: "UED2 help" help needed

Post by Buster »

I've had the UEd Help file fix on my site since the first day I launched it. Now it's linked to DieHard's site, as he's nice enough to host stuff for me.

UEd 'F1 key' Help5

It's found on this page on my site ...
http://www.members.shaw.ca/gatherstone/patches.htm

Or just go to the direct link ot it ...
http://www.celticwarriors.net/Downloads/Editing/Tutorials/ued_help05.zip

Hope that helps !!

:)
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Keep it Unreal !!
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