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Anyone interested?

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gopostal
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Anyone interested?

Post by gopostal »

Good buddy was in teamspeak and said this couldn't be done?



Well, it can if anyone wants them for mapping? I did the KF monsters, this is just more of the same.
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Krull0r
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Krull0r »

Nice one! Is this a pawn from Rune???
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gopostal
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by gopostal »

Yeah, it's the Rune demo. There's a ton of decent model work in it, lots of decorations, etc. Anyway my buddy said it wasn't possible to import Rune content so I took a look at it. It can be done.

I'm not sure if I'll do the monsters since it's very time consuming to code them from scratch but I'd do the decorations and static models if there is interest. There's some cool looking mushrooms and plants in it as well as a lot of melee weaponry and various artifacts.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Rune uses completely different model system. Straight porting cannot be done as they are not even meshes. I told this to someone recently. So I'm not sure what kind of tools you used, but within the "normal" methods I'm using it can't be done. I didn't check every program or tool that's out there, so if you used umodel for this and conversion, it might be possible. Either that or Rune demo is very different and uses standard meshes.

The models in Rune are half-geometry, use similar system like for displaying movers and can be independently animated/moved.

Apparently yes:
http://www.ut-files.com/Utilities/umodel/readme.txt

Rune support was even back then.
Last edited by Leo T_C_K on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gopostal
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by gopostal »

I keep seeing people saying this but I was able to do it the same way I imported the KF monsters. I can see each model's animations, they all play, I can export them into usable form. The only thing that has to be done by hand is to write all the monster code. I've done all that from scratch a bunch of times but it's time consuming and I honestly don't want to make the effort if they don't see any interest/use.

You are one of several people who has messaged me that all this is not possible. I'm going to have to do a simple one just to show everyone that it is. I don't think anyone made a full attempt and people are just saying what other people have said to them.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Leo T_C_K »

First, I didn't send any messages to you about it. It was a forum post that I made. Second, I never claimed it won't be possible to port them. But a straight conversion isn't possible because the format is very different and for example in rune the individual limbs can be severed and used as a weapon. This is all because of the "SkelModel" format. I am looking at it from the perspective of the game engine. The normal "Model" format in Unreal is used for movers.
This is why Rune is so unique, after all it was the wizardry of the Hexen guys.
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Rubie
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Rubie »

Well indeed very nice model :)
Like some know I'm on this project , exported all maps and busy to convert them for Unreal 1
I could export a couple models not many as the program I use crash all the time , did tried to run it in compatibility mode for xp but same result access violations address etc.......
program used Umodel.exe and Tack's Deus Ex Mesh Tool "both crash"
I did not tried to export pawns as this is a bridge to far for me hehe.
but the decorations really interest me to have a working set, like it looked not possible with my skills I did created some new deco's to add in the maps .
If you could do that for the project that would be really great to me it would give some boost to the project itself and also to the whole unreal mappers community to use something different than the decoration pack from unreal itself who is rather small if you compare it to the rune decoration pack some are awesome imo :) :) :)
I did looked also to all pawns I really like the skeletal one hey he is great but as he use a sword I don't want swords in unreal ........ lol
I'm on map 9 from +/-50 but not 1 of them is finished need to wait for this till I have all stuff I will use in the maps would be stupid to have to start all over again imo due to a change in the decoration stuff....

preview :

[img]http://img-cdn.filefactory.com/embed/xl/6qz6dpryd119.png[/img]

[img]http://img-cdn.filefactory.com/embed/xl/41vb1139chqf.png[/img]

so you see we are interested a lot and your work shall be used so this always give satisfaction to know it is not useless.


Greets, Rubie


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makemeunreal
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by makemeunreal »

I'd like to see 'em yea.
The more content we have the better.
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gopostal
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by gopostal »

First, I didn't send any messages to you about it. It was a forum post that I made.
What's the point of hair splitting? You replied *in a message* to me. If it makes you feel better then I'll amend my post to reflect *how* you replied to me. You are just trying to draw out another argument. SMH...
Second, I never claimed it won't be possible to port them. But a straight conversion isn't possible because the format is very different and for example in rune the individual limbs can be severed and used as a weapon. This is all because of the "SkelModel" format. I am looking at it from the perspective of the game engine. The normal "Model" format in Unreal is used for movers.
This is why Rune is so unique, after all it was the wizardry of the Hexen guys.
And I'm telling you again that yes it is. All that limb severing, etc is done in the code. By writing fresh code and using the existing anims set you can have a fully functioning monster without using any black magic.

You guys that do asset import from other games into Unreal need to understand from the outset that 1 to 1 import is likely never going to happen. However assets are assets within UEngine1 and the engine requires them to be in a format that *can* be accessed and exported by us. It just takes some work to bring them to life in our Unreal. Bob and I mess around with stuff like this all the time. You should see what we've imported into Unreal and played around with, even from entirely other engines.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I'm not trying to draw out any argument. Funny that I thought you are trying to send me on a guilt-trip.

Obviously we both tend to wrongly assume things due to our experiences.

My amazement in Rune lies within the extra stuff that Ben Gokey has incorporated into it. It's very different than skeletalmeshes found in ut/227 or other unreal engine games. This was also developed from version 100 of Unreal by branching off it seems and then merging later code in. But most of it is own former Raven work.Tim's log from 1996 mentions a potential deal with Raven and this is where this comes in play. They developed this since 1997. When they split off and weren't interested in further deals with id software. They went looking at Epic and entered the secret deal though it took a bit long for the game to come out obviously.

It even uses separate mesh file with the extension .ums just like Unreal Alpha once did. Not like the 227 .usm files anyway, it's something else.

The game uses polyobjects which were a major innovation for the Doom engine when Hexen came out. The same people coded this.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I just checked out in umodel:
It claims there are skeletalmeshes, but what it really does is convert the skelmodels already to display them as skeletalmeshes. See? When you use a tool outside of the engine that wasn't written from the perspective of the engine entirely like yrex tools do, it will report nonsense in practice. The format is very different but umodel already processes it to skeletalmesh.

Lol umodel can do this all easy for you. I just exported the skelmodel no problem, but what it really does is it already converts it to skeletalmesh. So, there's nothing particulary interesting or magical that you did.

Turns out you really wanted to send me on a guilt trip now. I can also export those and with no effort at all since umodel does all the work for you.

I only didn't have chance to try it in umodel before.

EDIT: I exported all these "meshes" in a couple of minutes. When I did tricks to trick 227 into accepting it as skeletalmesh without the data conversion that umodel does, it crashed the game.
What umodel cannot do but what I could do is convert some of them if requested to *.3d but it takes time, so that older unreal versions can benefit from this too. But that's really more like real work unlike working with umodel, since you need to export each frame and group them together to create a vert mesh.
Last edited by Leo T_C_K on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by []KAOS[]Casey »

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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Leo T_C_K »

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gopostal
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by gopostal »


What umodel cannot do but what I could do is convert some of them if requested to *.3d but it takes time, so that older unreal versions can benefit from this too. But that's really more like real work unlike working with umodel, since you need to export each frame and group them together to create a vert mesh.
Nope, you can get Gizzy or Bob to show you how to process the PSA/PSK files into direct import code that can be pasted to the top of a uc and compiled with the engine. You can do the entire process from Rune models to imported Unreal assets in less than 10 minutes and that includes texture conversion and assignments.

Even then you just have a raw (but functional) model with animations but absolutely no code at all to make anything work. You'll have to find an appropriate monster to follow and begin plugging in the animation calls to the behavior code. This can be time consuming because you have to also time everything out so the anims are smooth and have some flow while also coding for behaviors appropriate to the monster you are creating. It took about a week per monster on the KF ones to get them decent and even then I could have done better. I'm no modeller though, just a hobbyist hack.

Some of the Rune models could end up being very cool because there are a TON of anims on many of them. Some of the player models looked to have several hundred animation sets. Poly count was way better than the KF ones too so you could have more on the screen without issues.

I'm really very interested in this as a project but it's likely going to be someone else that does it if it gets fully done. I'd help a bit but I'm just not in a place right now to take on a full project. In fact I'll be out from Thursday on, I have to do another fucking treatment.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by Leo T_C_K »

You really have no clue what you're talking about right? I talked about converting it to .3d, here you're talking about uc code importing. one thing doesn't equal the other...or you mean that it's not as easy as I made it out to be? Well of course to make the pawn functional you have to do some more work (I had experience with that too like the upsx monsters recently while alca downplayed the work I did). But Rubie won't even be porting the pawns as it looks, he just needed the decos and that's what will be there.

I gave the exported meshes to Rubie already in psk/psa etc.
And he'll have the uc code too. This will make it OU 227 only or UT only, but it's the easier solution than having to convert them to vert meshes for use in 225 (even though that would be preferred).
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Re: Anyone interested?

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han
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by han »

Settle down and stay on topic. Use irc or private messages for your private stuff.
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gopostal
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by gopostal »

You really have no clue what you're talking about right?
I guess not :eyeroll: I'm done replying to you, here or anywhere else. You have just way too much baggage and anger. It's toxic.
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Re: Anyone interested?

Post by han »

Closed.
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