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Unreal Warfare (again)

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Leo T_C_K
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Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Leo T_C_K »



This is the only proper coverage of the unreal warfare demo leak so far, by hogsy. I'd like to call it a demo because it doesn't have all the gdc 2002 maps that were shown in that famous technology video(two are missing because it was most likely ctf maps and ctf's broken in this version) nor any of the earlier maps or maps referenced within the games files.

However about a year ago I had baratusII put up this video for me that I made before using my frankesteined version of the warfare stuff. Note that the real game still had uw.exe which is missing from this leak as its primarily engine thing.

But yea I combined it into "Fuckin' Wrong" video, I used to hear Wrong instead of Raw often and combined it with something else you'll see. Some of that content is not warfare related but it runs on that build, there are those example vehicles and the uengine runtime default map and some other stuff comes from a cancelled game "Hubris" that was developed early on the warfare engine and that for example had those infamous harpies. But because demiurge went on to become kind of the mentors for the engine developement and wrote many tutorials their content was often used/showcased within udn.



But yea I hope you notice how slow the character walks and that in practice the game's pace was slower than unreal 2. It wasn't Legend's call to make Unreal 2 slow and the environments more static. It was actually more pushed by Epic's side because they did the same thing for warfare and later unreal 2 versions had to use that code as a base due to a contract. Even though Legend had many things way better on their UEngine 1 builds, such as the lighting, i mean the u2 flashlight was absolutely excellent but it only worked on their engine and the warfare updates broke the flashlight to no longer be so great, it also caused the switch to a slower movement (only fixed in U2 by a patch and a setting you can set), which was still by default better than in warfare. They also abandoned all the cool stuff like destructible lights and realistic glass and slow motion physics with stasis fields that would have had F.E.A.R. run for the money...well it turns out some coders/people went on to join Monolith after Legend closed down, so there's that for you...they just implemented something there that wasn't possible before due to Infogrames/Atari and even Epic's interference.
Epic was at the time all about realistic soldier gear, even though that really flew into face with digital extremes take on things and the whole UT side...

Well that's it. Yes I am apologetic towards Unreal 2 because it is hated for reasons that weren't even the developers\ fault but ultimately someone else's decision.

So yea after knowing all that I can just stand confused like John Travolta, looking at all the potential Unreal 2 had and the destruction that used to be possible with the environments to the static movie like fest we got in the end with anything too risky and atmospheric being removed or anything that truly had THE EDGE or anything deep about the story like backlore about the Kai and more, leaving you wonder about these leftovers from Kai in the marsh map and such that never get an explanation in the finished game and all the reshuffling of missions.
*stands confused looking around like Travolta*




EDIT: Is dustin still around? He should make a male3 version of the travolta scene with that unused looking around anim.
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Hellkeeper
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Hellkeeper »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:17 am Well that's it. Yes I am apologetic towards Unreal 2 because it is hated for reasons that weren't even the developers\ fault but ultimately someone else's decision.

So yea after knowing all that I can just stand confused like John Travolta, looking at all the potential Unreal 2 had and the destruction that used to be possible with the environments to the static movie like fest we got in the end with anything too risky and atmospheric being removed or anything that truly had THE EDGE or anything deep about the story like backlore about the Kai and more, leaving you wonder about these leftovers from Kai in the marsh map and such that never get an explanation in the finished game and all the reshuffling of missions.
Yeah, I despise U2, but it's clear the game never even got a chance. From all that's been gathered about development, it had many great ideas and Legend did some great work, even the few elements that are present in the final game are great, from the new actors and the particle system to the conversation engine and so on. The lore had a lot of thought put into it, it's sad to see it reduce to this piss-poor 4 hours cliche "we're badass war veterans" we got instead.

From what I can tell, UW was really GOW ten years too early. What's fascinating is how all the maps and meshes were in the end recycled into UT2003 at the end of its lifecycle and even more into UT2004.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Leo T_C_K »

But only to the bonuspacks with ut2003. The Epic one, while the DE one introduced cut ut2003 maps instead.

have you tried the early U2 alphas I got out last year? Before the switch to the warfare engine.

EDIT: lol you know how we can fix what has been done? Let's make "Hunt Down the P849" :D
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

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Too bad we never got an official release of CTF-Lethargic.
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Yea and I just realize that hellkeeper meant with the end of its lifecycle the bonuspacks. I took it to mean the end of developement of ut2003 instead or the lifecycle of UW...well what do I know how he really meant it. Can't read thoughts I guess.
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

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Leo T_C_K wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:06 pm Yea and I just realize that hellkeeper meant with the end of its lifecycle the bonuspacks.
Yeah, I meant UT2003's end of life, when the bonus pack came out.
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Neon_Knight
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Neon_Knight »

What content from UW made its way into UT2003? I'm curious.

I was also aware that both versions of ElecFields and Lavagiant2 didn't made it in time for UT2003, what about the other three maps? (Ironic, Osiris2 and GrendelKeep)
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

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Neon_Knight wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 5:55 pm What content from UW made its way into UT2003? I'm curious.
A lot of meshes and maps. All the meshes from DM-Injector are showcased in some of the videos of UW, you can see the bones of AS-FallenCity for UT2004 are there, as well as DM-Junkyard, etc.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Neon_Knight wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 5:55 pm What content from UW made its way into UT2003? I'm curious.

I was also aware that both versions of ElecFields and Lavagiant2 didn't made it in time for UT2003, what about the other three maps? (Ironic, Osiris2 and GrendelKeep)
ElecFields and Lavagiant2 made it into the de bonuspack but lavagiant2 was cut for ut2004 (however you can still copy the map and you're good to go)

Just like hellkeeper said, the junkyard level and its variants are straight from warfare though as-junkyard is not however uses the staticmeshes from it.

as-convoy also uses stuff from warfare especially the main car the oil tanker is from warfare and early videos of it and part of the room was inspired also. There are concept arts I found a while back from the project as well and posted on a different forum. Some of those got remade into some 2001 presentations.

of course there's much more maps in ut2004 and the epic bonus pack that use warfare staticmeshes. One of the maps in the ECE bonus pack for ut2004 also use cogcity's staticmeshes including those signs like bleszinksi's bvd and shane's sign etc.

But the only true map that got ported and not reshuffled much map is simply junkyard in the dom and dm versions.

When I spoke to Phil Cole he said one of the levels he worked on came from warfare too but that he reworked it almost not to resemble the original. He couldn't exactly remember which, if fallencity or any other. But most of what he did was his original work except for reusing of content like staticmeshes and the textures.

Oh yea and I forgot about the ut2004 intro. Lots of it is reused from warfare and you can see the cog logo on the dropship above Xan. (which is the one thing or one of the things in the released games tying those damn universes together - i mean the current gears of war one - as the cog logos hardly changed in gears of war games. )

Unreal Warfare and its influences/lasting effects are similar to Star Trek Phase II and how parts of it ended up in the movies/part TNG etc...
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Neon_Knight
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Neon_Knight »

That may explain why UTPT has trouble opening both DM and DOM Junkyard... it shows quite the amount of gibberish.

There were a lot of bits I wasn't either aware or paying attention to, it seems. Quite interesting all of this.

Bleszinski and Caudle's signs map is ONS-Urban, (the best map of those that came with ECE?)

If Epic wanted, GoW and Unreal could have been a shared universe. Considering at the point GoW1 was released Epic was only developing Unreal games, maybe they didn't want to tire the audience.

So much to dig into... so little time... 😭
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Re: Unreal Warfare (again)

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Does UTPT have trouble opening my conversion of warfare junkyard too? Because I converted it straight from warfare into u2xmp and myleveled everything. I have to say that the editor itself took trouble sometimes with the long staticmesh names etc.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10056

Btw I noticed on the unreal wiki it talks about quadshot as if the way it fires in 227 is the way it was originally intended, perhaps a note should be added that it is only a reinterpretation of the gun, as both the unreal bible description and the way it works in the actual recovered prototypes is different. There altfire doesn't load in more shells, altfire empties all the barrels but the thing with the original implenetation is that it fired whatever remained of the four shells and only then reloaded. This was unknown by the time we implemented the quadshot for upsx rework as there was a psx quad planned or even made at one point, but this was done/shared by the rework in masterunreal's project that took the unreal bible description as a base. So there the quadshot always fires one round in primary and four in secondary and in secondary reloads longer. However the original 1996 quadshot only reloaded if all four shots have been fired by primary or if secondary unloaded the remaining shells. So basically the shells ammo is kind of like a clip of four shells each "magazine" that gets loaded at the bottom of the gun. That was the original intention for the quadshot. And it didn't even have a pellete spread, it was concentrated but lost damage the further it went away from the player and the gun. So you could hit stuff quite far away but it would be ineffective because of the loss of damage on the insta hit projectile, and yes it was a projectile and not outright tracer coded into the gun itself.
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