For direct access use https://forums.oldunreal.com
It's been quite a while since oldunreal had an overhaul, but we are moving to another server which require some updates and changes. The biggest change is the migration of our old reliable YaBB forum to phpBB. This system expects you to login with your username and old password known from YaBB.
If you experience any problems there is also the usual "password forgotten" function. Don't forget to clear your browser cache!
If you have any further concerns feel free to contact me: Smirftsch@oldunreal.com

XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Questions, Tips&Tricks for the special patches
Post Reply
User avatar
dizzy
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:45 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by dizzy »

I too would love to see a FrameRateLimit option added to this renderer, if possible.
Image
User avatar
metam0rt
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by metam0rt »

Comrades, I installed the 1.0.0.9 XopenGL with all instructions, It works very fine, but I found the issue that I had with the default openGL in singleplay with the game speed. I found it when I went preferences and turned the sync-off in XOpenGL. Would you set aside a little of time to advise me what to do?
User avatar
J3FF
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:16 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by J3FF »

That's cos there is no framerate limiter.

The author sadly prefers Vsync and its adaptive options which nobody else in the world likes because of input lag etc ;D
User avatar
metam0rt
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by metam0rt »

Ehh, indeed no one in the world still haven't the solution of this malady.. May theres some external render that can fix this thing, but [ch921] doubd, otherwise there wouldn't be some renders and those conversations.
(At least why in ugold it works so fine?)
Last edited by metam0rt on Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

sorry folks, terribly busy lately. This isn't about like and not like, the way the framerate limiter works in UTGLR f.e. has also quite some disadvantages and flaws- and input lag does not necessarily depend on it.
While the UT team is working on a new patch including a newer version of it I'll try to make a new version for here to download in the next days so you guys can tinker with it. It also contains a new option SyncToDraw which I added especially to reduce input lag.
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
metam0rt
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by metam0rt »

I'm waiting with impatience)
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

I had no time yet to really test this version, but I thought you want toy already a bit with it. Updated link in first post, tell me about issues. Forgive me if something is really messed yet, I'll test myself in the next days :)
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
effEX
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by effEX »

Gave the new version a quick test, but had issues.  The vsync is really choppy, even without STD (hmm, good acronym...) enabled, and I was losing frames quite badly.  Performance with STD enabled was the same. 

I tried using STD both with and without Vsync on at the same time as I don't know how it's supposed to work, but it made no difference in any case afaik.  As such I found it impossible to form any opinions on it. 

Performance without Vsync enabled (STD on/off) was typically over 400-500.

Oh, and the 'Unreal Tournament' logo graphic that usually shows upon booting the game (when the intro is disabled) isn't there, I just get a black screen.

quick specs:
Win10x64
Ryzen 5 3600
GTX 1060 6GB
Last edited by qaz2012 on Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

thanks already, I'll test these things once I'm back from work :)
The black intro I noticed, but I assumed this to be a glitch of the crappy mesa implementation I have in my Windows VM. My local wine version doesn't seem to like 4.36 and won't start it up at all.

[edit]Updated the file, should fix the issue with the black screen in intro. It didn't accept the brightness setting, probably it's the old files I need to link against here. If I find some additional time I may can try with an entire old compiler setup in a VM. don't have any choppyness here like you describe. I updated some dependencies, so maybe it's gone for you as well now.[/edit]
Last edited by Smirftsch on Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
effEX
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by effEX »

Upon further use with your updated version, it seems I didn't pay enough attention - it's got nothing to do with vsync, but rather entities on screen. 

Whenever something like a flag, a player model or even a weapon pickup is on screen, my fps tanks and frame timing goes out the window, even when not using vsync, but the effect is much less noticeable when vsync is disabled.  The more entities, the worse it gets. 

Tested on two default ctf maps, beatitude and command, with the same results.  This does not happen with the cwdohnal OpenGL renderer, where I get permanent stable performance when using the framerate limiter.

Good to see the UT graphic make a return ;p
Last edited by qaz2012 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
metam0rt
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by metam0rt »

You worked here with no vain! I realy see some potential in this version, I don't know if others noticed, but turning off the vsync doesn't make now issues with the 'gamespeed' in campaing! But with this, of course appeared some lags like to a friend from above, they are appearing while extreme moments, and supposably, when theres a lot of bots around you or see far detailed map. Maybe, u can make in other update unreal using some ram? Or it doesn't work like that
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

Upon further use with your updated version, it seems I didn't pay enough attention - it's got nothing to do with vsync, but rather entities on screen. 

Whenever something like a flag, a player model or even a weapon pickup is on screen, my fps tanks and frame timing goes out the window, even when not using vsync, but the effect is much less noticeable when vsync is disabled.  The more entities, the worse it gets. 

Tested on two default ctf maps, beatitude and command, with the same results.  This does not happen with the cwdohnal OpenGL renderer, where I get permanent stable performance when using the framerate limiter. 
I'm not sure if I really get you here, can you try to describe somehow differently?
Good to see the UT graphic make a return ;p
Yeah, I always lack the time and energy...



Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

You worked here with no vain! I realy see some potential in this version, I don't know if others noticed, but turning off the vsync doesn't make now issues with the 'gamespeed' in campaing! But with this, of course appeared some lags like to a friend from above, they are appearing while extreme moments, and supposably, when theres a lot of bots around you or see far detailed map. Maybe, u can make in other update unreal using some ram? Or it doesn't work like that
Did you try the SyncToDraw option?
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
metam0rt
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by metam0rt »

Definitely
User avatar
effEX
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by effEX »

I'm not sure if I really get you here, can you try to describe somehow differently?
No matter what options I use in regards to STD or Vsync, I take a massive hit to my FPS whenever something like a flag, weapon pickup, or player model is currently being looked at in the game (i.e., displayed on my monitor).  E.g., from 400-500 fps to 100, while Vsync is off.  As soon as I pan away until the flag is completely off screen, my FPS goes back to 400-500. 

The more such entities are on screen at once, the more negative impact to my FPS. 

I am assuming the frame timing is bad because when using Vsync, even though my average performance is easily capable of staying above my monitor's refresh rate (which is 75; and also the RR set in UT.ini), my fps will constantly dip well below 75 in the above described scenarios as Vsync halves the framerate to ensure 'smooth' performance when it cannot maintain the set RR. 

And given I've never experienced similar issues in the past in this game with any other renderer, I have to assume there's some kind of issue with my game install and this version of XOGL.

Let me know if that still isn't concise enough. 
Last edited by qaz2012 on Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
[]KAOS[]Casey
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:22 am
Location: over there

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by []KAOS[]Casey »

No matter what options I use in regards to STD or Vsync, I take a massive hit to my FPS whenever something like a flag, weapon pickup, or player model is currently being looked at in the game (i.e., displayed on my monitor).  E.g., from 400-500 fps to 100, while Vsync is off.  As soon as I pan away until the flag is completely off screen, my FPS goes back to 400-500. 

The more such entities are on screen at once, the more negative impact to my FPS. 
Unreal engine 1 processes all meshes, vertex or skeletal 100% on CPU. It's more or less just directly passed to the GPU as is to be drawn. Last I checked, there was some work behind the scenes to eventually fix this for 227 and UT versions >=469. This is is no bug, it's simply a bottleneck.
User avatar
effEX
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by effEX »

...Really.  Sure, I'll play along.  So answer me this: how come I experience no such drop in performance when using other renderers in the same scenarios?

Using cwdohnal's OGL renderer, I get 350 minimum when viewing a 16-bot match while watching every bot in the middle of ctf_face.  When watching just a flag, instead of dropping to 100fps, I'm getting 900. 

I've already stated this. There is an issue with this renderer. 
Last edited by qaz2012 on Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

Well, the problem is, that UE1 pushes everything point by point, vertex by vertex, in the worst case indeed one by one to the GPU. Modern renderers like new OpenGL3/4, also D3D10/11 and most likely Vulkan as well (didn't have the time yet to really check into it) LITERALLY HATE this behavior. Modern engines do batch these calls to have instead of 1 vert per call maybe 1000 verts- or even better, f.e. mesh information is directly stored in GPU memory and can be called/modified/doubled then from there when needed. As for 4.36 there is not much I can do about this behavior, even in 227 I "only" optimized the batching and I am using bindless textures (which increases, if not doubles FPS in some cases, especially when it comes to meshes), but everything else needs a huge redesign of all rendering.
In 469 they are working on a new complete rendering design although I have no idea right now in which state it is and when it will be possibly done.

Still- the real and ONLY question is if this FPS drop leads to a noticeable hang or lag / input lag of some sort while playing- nobody needs 900 FPS, if your screen does 75Hz and XOpenGL is capable of giving you 75FPS+ it should be fine in the most cases.
Of course there are other factors coming in for UE1, related to netspeed, input lag, etc., but to high FPS can even cause screen tearing and such, therefor things like VSync and SyncToDraw make sense. I can understand people want 100-120FPS in UE1 because of how it works...but 900 really ain't needed and so I am personally satisfied once gameplay is smooth and that's what I am targeting instead of just high fps rates.

That being said- did you try adaptive vsync as well?  What resolution do you run at?

I see if I can improve behavior some yet for 436.
Last edited by Smirftsch on Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
effEX
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by effEX »

Still- the real and ONLY question is if this FPS drop leads to a noticeable hang or lag / input lag of some sort while playing- nobody needs 900 FPS, if your screen does 75Hz and XOpenGL is capable of giving you 75FPS+ it should be fine in the most cases.
I've been saying in the last couple of posts that that 75fps is inconsistent, and even drops below that when enough entities are on screen simultaneously (the threshold is not that high, so it's actually very common). The game is unplayable with this renderer on my PC. 
I can understand people want 100-120FPS in UE1 because of how it works...but 900 really ain't needed and so I am personally satisfied once gameplay is smooth and that's what I am targeting instead of just high fps rates.
My first post in this thread was about how I'd like a frame rate limiter -_-

I'm not asking for 900fps due to how the game works, obviously.  It's unnecessary.  I am trying to say the performance I get, in the gameplay critical scenarios I've described, with an older renderer is at least 9 times better than this.  That doesn't sound right to me. 
That being said- did you try adaptive vsync as well?  What resolution do you run at?
Just gave it a try now (set Vsync to adaptive in UT.ini then started the game), and I get the same issue.  I'm running @ 1920x1080. 


---

I've just reinstalled version 1.0.0.9, and I do not get the same problem.  I'm running at hundreds of fps and it seems like its frametimes are not an issue.  It's about half as fast as cwdohnal's renderer still, though. 
Last edited by qaz2012 on Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

Uh, don't me wrong here, I am just trying to find out what's up - and many people indeed think the more FPS the better. I didn't intend to upset you.
I've just reinstalled version 1.0.0.9, and I do not get the same problem.  I'm running at hundreds of fps and it seems like its frametimes are not an issue.  It's about half as fast as cwdohnal's renderer still, though. 
That's indeed a very interesting part. This version definitely should be faster. Maybe this information helps.
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
Psykosoma
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:53 am

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Psykosoma »

hey I miss the option
OneXblending on xopengl.
it helps for seeing my crosshair on certain maps
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

this option changes blending in some way, so far I didn't have any needs for it, since XOpenGL works very different, it's no "update" of some sort for the UTGLR's.
What seems to be the problem?
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
User avatar
metam0rt
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by metam0rt »

So I'm still remaining on this issue with the gamespeed. I don't want to bother, but this now is the most main target for me. I was disscussing with many people about that, they was telling me that my unreal is launched on all my CPUs so that was making problem in the speed of game. They told I need to download some .exe file and replace it with the default ut.exe. But it didn't help. Im not expert, Just with this question, could u make some magic and make in addition for renderer launch the environment in 1 cpu? Or all this is useless
User avatar
metam0rt
OldUnreal Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by metam0rt »

So I'm still remaining on this issue with the gamespeed. I don't want to bother, but this now is the most main target for me. I was disscussing with many people about that, they was telling me that my unreal is launched on all my CPUs so that was making problem in the speed of game. They told I need to download some .exe file and replace it with the default ut.exe. But it didn't help. Im not expert, Just with this question, could u make some magic and make in addition for renderer launch the environment in 1 cpu? Or all this is useless



Edit: if somethin, I'm about the older versions. On the newest as 1.1.0.0 I cannot play - too much lag
User avatar
Smirftsch
Administrator
Posts: 8999
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 1998 10:00 pm
Location: NaPali
Contact:

Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament

Post by Smirftsch »

indeed there is a speed fix which applies to some of these cases, you can try if it works for you by setting manually in task manager the cpu affinity to one core for the UT process (that's what the .exe you have been told does permanently).

I was pretty busy again the last weeks, need to find out yet why current version seems to perform that bad.
Last edited by Smirftsch on Sun May 03, 2020 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
Post Reply

Return to “OpenGL & D3D for Unreal & UnrealTournament”