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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Windows 10 RUINS Everything (Read 870 times)
makemeunreal
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Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Jan 7th, 2021 at 10:14am
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My new laptop shipped with a pre-installed W10 PRO and given the fact that it is a 2020 dec gaming laptop my friend told me not to install W7 on it.

Since then, EVERY single stuff I had no problem with on my 2016 Acer Aspire (Win7) keeps FREAKIN' out including Unreal and the Editor as well. Not to mention OBS, and pretty much everything.

I am like literally furious right now.

The recent stupid behavior this piece of shit is that it keeps moving, like snapping the camera whenever I simply highlight (click) into another viewport...
It moves the camera whenever I zoom in a viewport... It's UNUSABLE.
So, right now it's impossible for me to use the editor....
Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Here's a video of this pos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NUO2Pvhr0Y&feature=youtu.be
  
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Hellkeeper
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 10:20am
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Hello and thank you for joining the W10 hotline. We hope you enjoy the next 5 years of suffering and pain.
We remain of course totally available to help you choke back the tears and grind your teeth in frustration.

Respectfully

The W10 help team
XOXOXOXOXOXO
  

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makemeunreal
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 10:33am
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I open the editor.

In the top viewport, I see the camera's direction to point straight left.
I click into the 3D viewport (don't move the mouse, just click) and the direction of the camera in the TOP viewport rotates 180'.
Every other click in the 3d viewport make the camera move on it's own to that direction. (Without ofc, moving the mouse)

@Hellkeeper

Man, 2 days of pain... I hate it.

Everything is broken. Just everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NUO2Pvhr0Y&feature=youtu.be
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 11:10am
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what version are you using right now?
I only experienced such behavior in my Win10 VM, not natively- although my main platform is Debian Linux for quite some time now, because I was sick of Win10 as well.
  

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anth
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 2:11pm
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I implement a workaround for this problem for 469's Unreal Editor and I ninja pushed the fix into the 227 repo as well. All recent 227j editor builds should have the fix.
  
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makemeunreal
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2021 at 3:18pm
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Is it possible to somehow cook a fix for 227i users?

It renders mapping extremely painful, tedious...

This bug renders the editor UNUSABLE.
« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2021 at 8:16pm by makemeunreal »  
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #6 - Jan 8th, 2021 at 11:14am
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makemeunreal wrote on Jan 7th, 2021 at 10:33am:
@Hellkeeper

Man, 2 days of pain... I hate it.

Everything is broken. Just everything.


Listen here you whiny youngster, back in my days we used to sculpt maps out of clay and legos to make a mold out of which we would make a paper model whose dimensions would be noted as a mix of inches and centimeters before inputing these as the polygon's vertices in notepad and then a friendly bat would spin a wheel for the computer to have enough power so the map would build. You have no idea how good you have it.

I myself made a full UT2004 map with W10 and I dare say 60% of the time was spent waiting for a click on a surface to register because for some reason, D3D has become an impediment for UnrealEd and there's no choice of renderer in UEd 3.0. That was before someone found a workaround. I have experienced more frustration building DM-Empire than I did trying (and failing) to come up with a layout for 2 years straight back in 2010. W10 has made mapping a chore I would be ashamed to inflict on my elf slaves (wat do?).

UEd 2.1 and 2.2, by allowing you to use software or OpenGl to render, only suffer from input issues, but that's already such a pain it's discouraging. I'll let you imagine what happens when selecting a surface or an actor takes between 5 and 60 (Dear Satan, please take my soul) seconds to register, all the while the editor is frozen stuck.
  

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makemeunreal
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #7 - Jan 8th, 2021 at 8:40pm
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That was some serious suffering you projected yourself to.
  
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #8 - Jan 8th, 2021 at 8:51pm
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makemeunreal wrote on Jan 8th, 2021 at 8:40pm:
That was some serious suffering you projected yourself to.

Yeah, I'm pretty h4rdc0r3.

Seriously though, I feel your pain, W10 has made everything UnrealEd-related either completely broken or at the very least tedious enough to be disheartening. It's a real pain. What ou are describing, I guess, is this painful "viewport moves when I click". This happens if you click while the mouse is moving. Only way to avoid it is to click while keeping the mouse completely still, and even then it will sometimes "jump". Nothing fixes it so far, all renderers are affected.

If you use D3D rendering, you will also experience serious delay between a click and its effect in D3D viewports. This can be avoided by (try not to laugh) disabling whatever graphic card you are using in the device manager so you computer chipset takes over. You have to do this before launching UnrealEd, otherwise the editor remains frozen.
  

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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #9 - Jan 8th, 2021 at 10:03pm
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Well... If it wasn't for new hardvare... I WOULD WIPE EVERY SONGLE STUPID BIT OF THIS CRAP.

Bought it.
Unreal didn't run as intended, was experiencing serious frame lag.
OBS doesn't work. Won't display anything.
Editor is fakkkked up.
UModel freaks out.

Every single thing I HAD NO PROBLEM before broke. It's like a torture.

So, OU staff...
Can we have a hotfix for 227i? xD
  
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #10 - Jan 9th, 2021 at 2:55pm
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I honestly think a serious effort should be put into creating an entirely new editor from scratch using something like QT. UnrealED always felt like it just barely held together with virtual ducttape, hopes and dreams even at the best of times.

However, I don't know how feasible this would be. Iirc is UnrealEd just a visual basic front end to interact with editor.dll. And i dont know which of the two is to blame for these problems and if something written with modern tools and OS's in mind could even interact with editor.dll. I cant imagine getting the viewports to work would be easy for example.
  

I hate it when people ask me what my favorite game is. Just try to explain you're not talking about Unreal Tournament Roll Eyes.
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #11 - Jan 9th, 2021 at 3:01pm
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Skywolf wrote on Jan 9th, 2021 at 2:55pm:
UnrealED always felt like it just barely held together with virtual ducttape, hopes and dreams even at the best of times.

Wow, I fully disagree. Even UEd 1.0 akways felt like a finished and well integrated product compared to all other editors of the same era I had the misfortune to try. 2.0 is great despite a few issues which are minor compared to those I found in others and all the updated versions (2.1, 2.2, 3.0) were so smooth it felt like mapping with my mind.
  

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ividyon
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #12 - Jan 9th, 2021 at 3:22pm
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My understanding is that an increasing amount of effort is being put into fixing up the UnrealEd back-end to allow things via the console that are currently specific to the UI, meaning that technically, ideally, the end result is that the community can contribute their own editor frontends. So, that's already an ongoing thing. Increasing amounts of "the duct tape" are being cleared away already in the current builds of 227j.

But as of now, I'll be enough of a realist to say that this won't actually happen, as the community is far too small to sustain such an effort.

And I most certainly don't see this task in the hands of the 227 team. UnrealEd 2.2 is already quite a blessing compared to 2.0, and there are plenty of other things that take priority.
  
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #13 - Jan 9th, 2021 at 3:51pm
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I mean sure, if you ignore the editor not reacting to mouse clicks whenever is feel like, the texture browser not refreshing as it should when switching between packages or groups, having to deal with a mess of open windows that you constantly need to either move out the way or close and re-open, having problem rotating actors due to gimbal locking, selecting brush wireframes requiring you to be pixel perfect (on moderns high res displays) and probably a bunch more than I'm not thinking about, it's flawless!

Not sure how much of these are fixed in 2.2. Can imagine the first two are (2.1 is the last one I used on Windows and Wine introduces a bunch of issues making it difficult to see if these things are fixed). But general usability has always been stuck in 1998.

I agree the editor is pretty good for its time and these issues were forgiven as a result but it could really use an update. And I cant help but feel 227's efforts are held back by the outdated code. I might be wrong of course. Not like anybody can look into the code except those blessed by Epic.
  

I hate it when people ask me what my favorite game is. Just try to explain you're not talking about Unreal Tournament Roll Eyes.
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ividyon
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Re: Windows 10 RUINS Everything
Reply #14 - Jan 9th, 2021 at 4:49pm
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Some of these are artifacts of incompatibilities with newer systems, as some of the issues only started appearing in Win10. Others are minor inconveniences at best. There are some egregious annoyances like the one described in the OP, which really do make a mess of one's workflow, and by now I have campaigned enough that these are fixed in 227j. (Community outreach is needed to inform devs about these issues, as Smirf and Dots don't spend all day making maps.) The rest are really not such a huge deal that they ruin your work with the editor. It's still a rather usable and comfortable tool, which I vastly prefer to the likes of Hammer.
  
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