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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation (Read 969 times)
uji
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How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
May 19th, 2020 at 6:46pm
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Hi,

I remember being able to do this in the past but I cannot remember what I need to do. From memory it works fine but the guns are updated to UT style guns.

Cheers,

  
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[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #1 - May 19th, 2020 at 7:01pm
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you don't. there are mods to do so, but they are by far not representative of unreal 1 at all. the "creator" took great liberties in modifying how things work rather than simply allowing unreal 1 stuff to work in UT.
  
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hund_schraube
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #2 - Jul 3rd, 2020 at 5:03pm
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Dr.Flay™
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #3 - Jul 4th, 2020 at 1:15pm
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It just takes a few addons for either game and a little editing of the 2 game ini files.
I mostly play UT99 in Unreal.

Turn Unreal into UT and UT into Unreal
https://ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=5540
  
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Teromen
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #4 - Oct 13th, 2020 at 2:14am
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Too bad the newer versions of Infiltration don't work with it Sad

That or I don't know how to do it.
  
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #5 - Oct 17th, 2020 at 10:36pm
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I wonder how bad the inaccuracies while playing unreal campaign through ut oldskool mod really are. I did it a long time ago, not sure if I've ever beaten it start to end tho, but I don't remember anything particulary offensive. What exactly makes it "by far not representative of unreal 1 at all"?
  
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ividyon
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #6 - Oct 19th, 2020 at 1:03pm
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The UT Oldskool mod offers a mutator and some added classes to be able to play Unreal maps in UT.

Unreal maps (before 227) are fully forward compatible with UT, but - to VERY simply paraphrase things (while omitting technical details I don't know) - UT doesn't easily let you just use the old gametypes and items. Instead, they are forcibly converted to UT counterparts, which breaks things, since UT doesn't have a single-player campaign mode out of the box, and old Unreal weapons are forcibly converted to UT weapons.

Oldskool, in turn, overrides these classes with its own (having its own version of each old Unreal weapon, and the Unreal single-player game type), and gives you a mutator which lets you *launch* those old Unreal campaigns and play them.

This is perfectly fine, by the way! Oldskool is perfectly okay for most casual playing purposes. You won't notice much difference besides your UT player model taunting on kills, a reload key for your Automag, and some other minute things.

A lot of Oldskool can even be configured; you can decide which UT weapons to override with Oldskool weapons, and which to keep.

However, this isn't "adding Unreal 1 to your UT installation" as much as a workaround to let you play the old maps.

Unreal 1 mods are still based off of the old Unreal 1 actors, so a chunk of them won't work in UT, since they'd have to be based off of the Oldskool actors instead. One would have to go and rework many of these mods to base them off of the Oldskool replacements instead of the original classes.

A true combination of Unreal and UT isn't possible, as there are engine differences between U1, UT and especially 227, and there is no true parity.

However personally, I recommend not getting too hung up on that, and just having an install of each. They're very tiny games for today's standards, and it's not a lot of effort to set them up correctly.
  
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Masterkent
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #7 - Nov 26th, 2020 at 2:13pm
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ividyon wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 1:03pm:
The UT Oldskool mod offers a mutator and some added classes to be able to play Unreal maps in UT.

That's possible without any mods.

ividyon wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 1:03pm:
UT doesn't easily let you just use the old gametypes and items.

Starting U1 campaign in UT is as easy as executing 2 console commands (see below).

ividyon wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 1:03pm:
Instead, they are forcibly converted to UT counterparts

That's because UT uses Botpack.DeathMatchPlus as the default game type. This is a configurable setting that can be modified by editing UnrealTournament.ini

Code
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[Engine.Engine]
....
DefaultGame=Botpack.DeathMatchPlus 


You can specify any valid class there, including UnrealShare.SinglePlayer (which is the default for Unreal 1):

Code
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[Engine.Engine]
....
DefaultGame=UnrealShare.SinglePlayer 



ividyon wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 1:03pm:
since UT doesn't have a single-player campaign mode out of the box

UT _does_ provide U1 single-player mode, you just can't find it anywhere in the default UT game menu. Nevertheless, you can use the in-game console to open U1 maps or specify the initial map via command line.

In particular, to start the U1 campaign with difficulty 3 and player class UnrealI.MaleOne, all you need is to enter

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open Vortex2?Difficulty=3?Class=UnrealI.MaleOne 


in console. If you didn't change DefaultGame in Engine.Engine before that, you can execute

Code
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set LevelInfo DefaultGameType UnrealShare.SinglePlayer 


in order to make this class used on further levels.

In case if you forgot to change the default game type in time and entered a new level with a wrong game type, you can execute

Code
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summon UnrealShare.SinglePlayer
set LevelInfo DefaultGameType UnrealShare.SinglePlayer
RestartLevel 

  
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Victor Delacroix
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #8 - Nov 27th, 2020 at 10:53am
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Masterkent wrote on Nov 26th, 2020 at 2:13pm:
ividyon wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 1:03pm:
The UT Oldskool mod offers a mutator and some added classes to be able to play Unreal maps in UT.

That's possible without any mods.


Possible, yes, definitely. Feasible?

Uh... That'll be a hard pass.

Please understand. The issue here is that... I mean just look at the number of commands you have to know and the ini switch you have to make in order to get stuff to work.

Oldskool is far from ideal from a coding standpoint, it's borderline spaghetti but from an end-user standpoint, it's definitely preferable as it offers an easy to use frontend to run all that stuff.

Ividyon is right in recommending Oldskool.
  
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Masterkent
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #9 - Nov 27th, 2020 at 3:28pm
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Victor Delacroix wrote on Nov 27th, 2020 at 10:53am:
Possible, yes, definitely. Feasible?

Uh... That'll be a hard pass.

Please understand. The issue here is that... I mean just look at the number of commands you have to know and the ini switch you have to make in order to get stuff to work.

The number is small for me. It's also possible to create a batch file like UT-Unreal1.bat with the following contents:

Code
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start UnrealTournament.exe Vortex2?difficulty=3?Class=UnrealI.MaleOne?ini=UT-Unreal1.ini 


and make two ini files:
UnrealTournament.ini - for UT
UT-Unreal1.ini (with modified DefaultGame) - for U1

Then whenever you want to start U1 game with your favourite difficulty, you just launch the batch file.

Quote:
Oldskool is far from ideal from a coding standpoint, it's borderline spaghetti but from an end-user standpoint, it's definitely preferable as it offers an easy to use frontend to run all that stuff.

That completely depends on the user. For those people who know game settings/commands well, there is really no much difference.
  
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ividyon
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2020 at 5:03pm
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Interesting insights! I did say I'm heavily paraphrasing everything for the layman, but of course technically there's a way to access things.

Crucially, that is not "combining Unreal and UT", but just flipping the switch off on everything UT, no?

If things are so easily accessible, what made Oldskool necessary in the first place, and popular enough to have multiple successful campaigns based off of it?
  
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #11 - Nov 27th, 2020 at 5:22pm
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ividyon wrote on Nov 27th, 2020 at 5:03pm:
what made Oldskool necessary in the first place

probably the lines of code missing to get weapons that aren't tournament weapons to fire on tournamentplayers -- except all that really did was enable UT weapons in U1, there was nothing stopping you from using unrealiplayer with an unreal 1 gametype in UT.

It's literally simple as this in ServerMove (and another block for AltFire):
Quote:
                 if( TournamentWeapon(Weapon) != None )
                 {
                       Weapon.ForceFire();
                 }
                 else
                 {
                       Weapon.Fire(0);
                 }


that else block didn't exist in UT proper. I am pretty sure 469 fixes this so no mod at all is necessary to fix firing

the only other thing oldskool did thats of any note was replace projectiles with ones that spawn decals by replacing pawns' properties in new classes of the pawns, even though there are workarounds in UT with spawnnotify to replace projectiles without replacing pawns, among other methods (such as using Set in ConsoleCommand). the core of my problem is specifically how all the extra fancy stuff was handled. most of the "extra credit" changes contain... nightmare code. and i'm really not sure why.

there is also that part where ZoneInfo's default ZoneGroundFriction is different in UT and Unreal, but that largely shouldn't effect anything noticeably... I'd hope.

I made a proof of concept mod ages ago now where all I did was make a mutator to modify the incoming player classes to ones with that fix and a couple other misc fixes, like the end teleporter in endgame taking you to Vortex2 instead of Unreal.unr, ability to skip extremedgen because the map is bugged, attempt to fix extremedgen instead of skip, etc. it's extremely minimal and only does stuff to make the U1 campaign playable.
  
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ividyon
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #12 - Nov 27th, 2020 at 10:44pm
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Right! My take-away is that there are legitimate problems that Oldskool addresses, and along with the fact that it integrates with regular UT99 without a need for INI changes, and can be used straight from the menu to jump into SP, it's still the recommended choice for regular users to jump into Unreal single-player with a UT99 install, while advanced purists can forego it with the tweaks listed above, and technically all of it can done better, but there is nothing to that beyond a "proof of concept". Smiley

Add to that the fact that Xidia, 7B, ONP etc. all depend on Oldskool, and we're back where we left off with my original post.
« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2020 at 2:58pm by ividyon »  
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Smirftsch
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Re: How to combine Unreal 1 into a UT installation
Reply #13 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 7:04am
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wondering if I can encourage someone here to put this wisdom into wiki? Smiley
  

Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
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