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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The evil Nalis of Nali Castle? (Read 2716 times)
wfank30
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The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Nov 25th, 2018 at 11:01am
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This is entirely my perspective, but in Nali Castle when you rescue the Nalis from the dungeons near the end of the map, some of them take you to a location of a Skaarj Berserker (or Assassin, can't remember, havent played in 5 years), and after you kill the Sakaarj even though you did not fire a shot at the Nalis, the Nalis act afraid of you as though you ruined their plan. The location they take me to has no items to collect. Now again there is another Nali in one of the dungeon who take you really far, outside the surface of the castle to a different surface of the map, with a special ride. Once there and off the ride, the Nali leads you outside the cave and if you fallow him immediately you get shot by the type of jet you saw in Outpost 3SJ and the message reads "'____ was killed by a Nali" Unlike the previous place wit the skaarj this place as stuffs to collect (nali health fruit seeds), still this behavior is weird.

Just my theory that the Nalis ad hoped that prisoner 849 had come as a messiah to help them gain independence from the skaarj, and even though he helps a few of them through out every map, this has little affect and they continue to be suffered, crucified, chained upside down above hot lava, caged, etc. And by the time 849 goes to Nali Castle they realized that 849 was leaving without fulfilling the prophecy. While the Nalis outside the dungeons means no harms, the ones rescued from the dungeon feel betrayed by 849, knowing that if he leaves the castle he goes to the mother ship (though 849 must have duel the warlord and go through a bit more stuffs before that, nali castle is the last map in the original unreal to feature nalis) and is out of Na Pali, so they try to take revenge by luring him to places they would get 849 killed.

This theory is bizarre, and i doubt it is the case, by usually if you get killed by a special case, not by by creatures and things (like the arrows shooting at you in Chizara, the message just reads "_______ was killed". Also the only other map you can get killed by Nalis (in a normal situation and with the message confirming so) is Bluff Eversmoking, if you stay too close to the containers when the nali priests are opening them, but thats just accidental. The fact that if you get shot by the jet in Nali Castle and the message reads "________ was killed by a Nali" does give my bizarre theory some credibility  Wink!
  
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Masterkent
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #1 - Nov 25th, 2018 at 2:31pm
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The developers didn't have to do anything special in order to make "was killed by a Nali" appearing in that particular case.

When a pawn (such as a Nali) activates a Trigger, the given pawn automatically becomes the so-called "instigator" of the event associated with the Trigger. The instigator is then associated with any subsequent event or damage which is directly or indirectly caused by the initial event - this is the default behavior for Triggers, Dispatchers, Movers, ExplosionChains, etc, and the developers would need to explicitly modify the instigator in the chain of events in order to form other death messages. Most likely, they just didn't pay attention to this.
  
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wfank30
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #2 - Nov 25th, 2018 at 7:06pm
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I see MasterKent, thanks for the information, I understand the whole thing now. Well am just a regular player, but you are a developer and a programmer and know all these. But really thanks for the info, this whole thing was a mystery for me for more than a decade and now its been solved  Grin!
  
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #3 - Nov 25th, 2018 at 7:48pm
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BTW, if you kill that Nali right after he reaches the trigger, then you can get other death messages:

"<playername> was killed by" (when Nali was destroyed, but wasn't garbage-collected)
"<playername> was killed" (when Nali was destroyed and garbage-collected).

The trigger is placed near to the upper exit from the cave (you can use console command "set Trigger bHidden false" to make it visible).

In order to force a sooner garbage collection, you may shoot his dead body with Minigun using the secondary fire (this should produce a lot of actors in a short time interval).
  
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #4 - Nov 26th, 2018 at 8:25am
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Isn't the Nali supposed to get hit by the ship?
  
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #5 - Nov 26th, 2018 at 10:36am
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I'm more interested in the fact there's no trace of anything acting like a form of currency on Na Pali.
I conclude from this that money doesn't exist and the Nalis are a communist society.
  

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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #6 - Nov 26th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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To be fair, Nali have been oppressed by the Skaarj for hundreds of years. And I'm pretty sure Skaarj don't pay their slaves. Although being slaves does reinforce the idea of Na-pali being a communistic planet.

They could also just trade stuff instead of using a currency.
  

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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #7 - Nov 26th, 2018 at 5:24pm
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As to the medium of exchange I will go with the barter system too, one good for another, most tribal societies and farmers still have that, and thats seems t be the way Nalis live. Also skaarjs and kralls gets free stuffs from Nalis forcefully, like the small bar in Na Pali Havean, something about it is written on the Nali's diary , the Nali shop keeper's place was a place of laughter and enjoyment, now he is forced to serve the skaarjs and kralls (3 kralls there playing dice) in exchange for the life of his family.
  
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #8 - Dec 3rd, 2018 at 7:26pm
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wfank30 wrote on Nov 26th, 2018 at 5:24pm:
the Nali shop keeper's place was a place of laughter and enjoyment, now he is forced to serve the skaarjs and kralls (3 kralls there playing dice) in exchange for the life of his family.


I would say the Skaarj enslaved them with communism, hence them being used for forced unpayed labor. Damn pinko Skaarj!
  
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #9 - Dec 4th, 2018 at 1:31am
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I just gave this a little bit of thought and I think you're wrong, here's what probably happened.

We've all noticed ancient Nali temples are reminiscent of Aztec and Mayan temples, which hints at a similar kind of culture, probably tending towards the Aztec one given the main cult being Chizra, a water god who, to me, evokes the Aztec god of rain Tlaloc, supreme deity of the Aztec pantheon.
So they probably used a similar system of belief and societal organization: priests were at the top and workers at the bottom. This is made clear by the presence of Nali priests and normal Nalis, but the absence of warrior Nalis is explainable by their slaughter at the hand of the Skaarj.
Similarily, they probably used grain as currency. Instead of cocoa seed, they probably used the single most common seed the player encounters on his trip: healing fruit seed.
The seed, as we all know, can produce too fruits in a matter of seconds. The plant has also been shown to be able to grow rapidly on any type of surface and material, under any type of climate. Hence a rapid devaluation of the currency as its number could increase infinitely, and with the priests having little knowledge of inflation mechanism, trade probably ground to a halt rapidly. This is hinted by the absence of any market in any place we've visited on Na Pali. This was not as terrible as it sounds as food literally grows on trees down there, but it meant Nalis being pretty much self-reliant scattered across the planet and society never became unified under a single state, or a pre-existing state fragmented rapidly (a strictly vertical organization was probably present at some point, as large military buildings are found, such as the Nali Castle).

However, with small communities being dispersed all over the surface, the Nali religion became the single unifying factor of the species... If that. We have no way of knowing whether the different gods of the Nalis were all present at the same time, are local gods artificially tied into a larger pantheon like some of the gods of Egypt, or were completely different religions, present at the same time in separate localities. Given the state of the temples, it seems Chizra was worshiped at a later period than Vandora, or that his cult persisted after Vandora's faded.

Vandora's apocalyptic cult is a clear sign that Nali society in a somewhat distant past underwent a violent and painful phase, which explains the presence of the Dark Arena in a relatively good state (it is brand new compared to Vandora's temple). At some point before the arrival of the Skaarj, Nali priests (and hypothetically warriors) forced the lower classes into violent games or had them executed in spectacular ways to serve as examples, probably after a wave of unrest or attempted revolutions. I propose that these were a reaction to the atomization of society and the breakdown of old religious beliefs, probably prompted by a sever economic crisis as the upper classes tried to obtain a monopoly over the production of healing fruit seed, erasing the former production cycle where peasants would harvest part of the seeds for currency and use the other to grow crops.

This destabilization of traditionnal agriculture was an attempt to centralize the currency and stop the population from bleeding out of the main Nali settlements into the distant countryside and preserve the integrity of Nali fiefdoms and keep the population under manageable power structures, in a word, to prevent total anarchy. This was probably successful but left deep scars in Nali culture. This is probably the point where the cult of Vandora was at its strongest as her cult relies heavily on the belief of a better world after a life of suffering on Na Pali. After a while, things probably settled down into a stable society and the cult faded or diminished in importance, but the rise (or apparition?) of the religious importance of Chizra indicates that agriculture remained the central aspect of Nali society, either because drought caused great worry among peasants, or because the lower strata of feudal Nali society sticked to purely day-to-day problems while the priests and warriors busied themselves with higher questions. It's not impossible to imagine a somewhat separate religion for warriors, loosely tied to the normal pantheon.

However, with the currency firmly in the hands of the upper class, the peasantry still failed to maintain appropriate trade, hindered also by the mountainous landscape of the planet making trade routes dangerous and overland travel a chore. Moreover, the importance of warriors went down as the most recent-looking monumental buildings encountered in the game are devoid of military significance and seem to be religious in nature, I'm talking about the Sunspire, a marvelous building which looks brand-new and which hints at Nali society being still integrated enough to provide the manpower and resources needed to erect it. Moreover, it leads to the Sky Haven, which is entirely devoid of any military apparatus (the walls have no chemin de ronde) and was occupied in this very state just before the Skaarj invasion. We can thus conclude that the harsh action of the upper classes were successful in keeping Nali society united, but the warriors seem to have lost their importance as time went by, while priests remained important and maybe supplanted or absorbed the former fighting-class. As you all remember, all Nalis encountered in the game were either priests themselves or deeply religious.

What we have then is a quite foreseeable evolution of society: with the end of feudal military traditions, the Nalis were unable to resist the Skaarjs. The absolute power of the clergy probably led to an ever increasing concentration of wealth into the hands of the Church, with large churches and cathedrals being built in recent times (again, look at sky town) and society becoming ever more dependent on charity by the Church. It's easy to imagine land became largely a propriety of religious congregations too and free peasants became serfs working under the direction of priests. As with communism in Russia, this led to decreased output, diminishing crops creating famines and a lower number of seeds causing runaway deflation, stiffling whatever remained of any trade. With little to no food, less currency and prices increasing, population declined, which is obvious in the game given how few Nalis are found in all villages and sometimes entire cities. The Skaarj probably invaded at a time where the Nalis were on the brink of revolution or about to go extinct after several years of famine.

This explains the presence of cross symbols in various places in Na Pali. They seem to be traces of cult of pain, as they clearly existed before the arrival of the Skaarjs (Bluff Eversmoking could not have been built after their arrival given how depopulated the area is). The cult of Vandora was probably also making a comeback or was about to be revived when the Mothership landed. The belief in the coming of someone who would free them from the Skaarjs and cleanse them from their sins seems to indicate a longing for the domination of the extinct warrior class, probably in the hope it could have protected Na Pali from the Skaarj and because the salvation theology of the Nali associates the suffering of the population under feudal miliary lords wth stability and independance. The player is only lucky to fit the vague sacred texts perfectly.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2018 at 10:33am by Hellkeeper »  

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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #10 - Dec 5th, 2018 at 12:55am
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Hmm, indeed they are tribal, but not communistic in my opinion. First, they aren't very technologically advanced, and any present technology on the planet seems to be built by the Skaarj after the takeover. With their deep religiousness, this also shows lack of communism, since almost all socialist and communists are athiest and anti-religous in nature.

About their lack of military and militant structures, this may be due to the Nalis special powers. They can levitate, and to the looks of it, use telekinesis. This would further eleborate their undesire for guns, militant buildings, and violent nature. They seem to be able to defend themselfs in a different manner, but dont do so, because of their Buddhist mentality, further showing their lack of interest for war and weapons.

The real question here is did they have a form of currency in their society. They may have fruit that can be grown at will, but do they eat meat? There are signs of them farming cows and bunnies in levels of the game. They may have sold these, but fruit was moreso free, as compared to meat and other food. HMMMMMMMMMMMM

  
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #11 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 3:18am
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Where is it that the Nalis are the ones that built all those temples, castles, etc? They seem more like the indigenous race of the planet, and the structures are left by the various ruling cultures/races over the centuries, up to the present time of the game. Some of the older sites, like the Aztec style temple, became entwined with the Nali's culture and/or religion over long periods of time. The older sites seem to be the ones with a religious tone. The middle ages styled structures seem likely the period where the Nali were the peasant/servant class or race, and served a ruling class that was not Nali. The game's present day finds the Nali being the survivors of another invasion, which seems to have killed the ruling and military classes/races leaving the Nali to be enslaved. The Skaarj are just the latest invaders.
  

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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #12 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 6:28am
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Although this is reasonable to bring up the potential of previous invaders, and question if they were the first peoples to inhabit the planet, the nature of the Nali people doesnt support this claim. Since they are very peaceful, one would imagine if a previous invasion would of happened, they would have been wiped out. Given that the structures are graffitied with their gods and culture, one has to assume that they are indeed responsible for these buildings, since they are etched in stone.

That would be like questioning the Egyption peoples being the first in their land, but their culture littered everywhere and engraven.
  
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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #13 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 8:21am
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Not in all cases. It's a stretch, sort of, but take the case of the Latvians. They're a very peaceful culture with a history of having NO standing army until 1991, when they got their own country back, finally. All the castles, etc are built by the invaders. There was a crusade against the Latvians by the Teutonic knights back in the early 1000's. There were invaders before them, and after them, including the Nazis that tore my family from their land and enslaved them in a camp. My family was around during the crusades, and obviously survived to this day. Latvians weren't wiped out. We made great slave labor for the ruling invaders. My family's history is that sad example of the indigenous people not being wiped out, but enslaved to labor. Sad but true.
  

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Re: The evil Nalis of Nali Castle?
Reply #14 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 9:31am
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The main difference between the Latvians and the Nalis is that the Latvians were and still are stuck between Germany and Russia while the Nalis are alone on a distant planet. There's no reason to believe unknown races have left structures which seem to pass perfectly as nali temples then simply disappeared without leaving a single trace.
« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2018 at 1:21pm by Hellkeeper »  

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