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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament (Read 70973 times)
metam0rt
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #180 - Mar 29th, 2020 at 7:43pm
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I'm waiting with impatience)
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #181 - Mar 31st, 2020 at 4:09pm
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I had no time yet to really test this version, but I thought you want toy already a bit with it. Updated link in first post, tell me about issues. Forgive me if something is really messed yet, I'll test myself in the next days Smiley
  

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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #182 - Mar 31st, 2020 at 7:03pm
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Gave the new version a quick test, but had issues.  The vsync is really choppy, even without STD (hmm, good acronym...) enabled, and I was losing frames quite badly.  Performance with STD enabled was the same. 

I tried using STD both with and without Vsync on at the same time as I don't know how it's supposed to work, but it made no difference in any case afaik.  As such I found it impossible to form any opinions on it. 

Performance without Vsync enabled (STD on/off) was typically over 400-500.

Oh, and the 'Unreal Tournament' logo graphic that usually shows upon booting the game (when the intro is disabled) isn't there, I just get a black screen. 

quick specs:
Win10x64
Ryzen 5 3600
GTX 1060 6GB
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #183 - Apr 1st, 2020 at 5:51am
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thanks already, I'll test these things once I'm back from work Smiley
The black intro I noticed, but I assumed this to be a glitch of the crappy mesa implementation I have in my Windows VM. My local wine version doesn't seem to like 4.36 and won't start it up at all.

Edited:
Updated the file, should fix the issue with the black screen in intro. It didn't accept the brightness setting, probably it's the old files I need to link against here. If I find some additional time I may can try with an entire old compiler setup in a VM. don't have any choppyness here like you describe. I updated some dependencies, so maybe it's gone for you as well now.
« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2020 at 3:01pm by Smirftsch »  

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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #184 - Apr 1st, 2020 at 6:53pm
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Upon further use with your updated version, it seems I didn't pay enough attention - it's got nothing to do with vsync, but rather entities on screen. 

Whenever something like a flag, a player model or even a weapon pickup is on screen, my fps tanks and frame timing goes out the window, even when not using vsync, but the effect is much less noticeable when vsync is disabled.  The more entities, the worse it gets. 

Tested on two default ctf maps, beatitude and command, with the same results.  This does not happen with the cwdohnal OpenGL renderer, where I get permanent stable performance when using the framerate limiter. 

Good to see the UT graphic make a return ;p
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #185 - Apr 1st, 2020 at 9:34pm
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You worked here with no vain! I realy see some potential in this version, I don't know if others noticed, but turning off the vsync doesn't make now issues with the 'gamespeed' in campaing! But with this, of course appeared some lags like to a friend from above, they are appearing while extreme moments, and supposably, when theres a lot of bots around you or see far detailed map. Maybe, u can make in other update unreal using some ram? Or it doesn't work like that
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #186 - Apr 2nd, 2020 at 6:19am
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effEX wrote on Apr 1st, 2020 at 6:53pm:
Upon further use with your updated version, it seems I didn't pay enough attention - it's got nothing to do with vsync, but rather entities on screen. 

Whenever something like a flag, a player model or even a weapon pickup is on screen, my fps tanks and frame timing goes out the window, even when not using vsync, but the effect is much less noticeable when vsync is disabled.  The more entities, the worse it gets. 

Tested on two default ctf maps, beatitude and command, with the same results.  This does not happen with the cwdohnal OpenGL renderer, where I get permanent stable performance when using the framerate limiter. 

I'm not sure if I really get you here, can you try to describe somehow differently?

effEX wrote on Apr 1st, 2020 at 6:53pm:
Good to see the UT graphic make a return ;p


Yeah, I always lack the time and energy...



  

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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #187 - Apr 2nd, 2020 at 6:20am
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metam0rt wrote on Apr 1st, 2020 at 9:34pm:
You worked here with no vain! I realy see some potential in this version, I don't know if others noticed, but turning off the vsync doesn't make now issues with the 'gamespeed' in campaing! But with this, of course appeared some lags like to a friend from above, they are appearing while extreme moments, and supposably, when theres a lot of bots around you or see far detailed map. Maybe, u can make in other update unreal using some ram? Or it doesn't work like that


Did you try the SyncToDraw option?
  

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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #188 - Apr 2nd, 2020 at 8:58am
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Definitely
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #189 - Apr 2nd, 2020 at 10:13pm
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Smirftsch wrote on Apr 2nd, 2020 at 6:19am:
I'm not sure if I really get you here, can you try to describe somehow differently?


No matter what options I use in regards to STD or Vsync, I take a massive hit to my FPS whenever something like a flag, weapon pickup, or player model is currently being looked at in the game (i.e., displayed on my monitor).  E.g., from 400-500 fps to 100, while Vsync is off.  As soon as I pan away until the flag is completely off screen, my FPS goes back to 400-500. 

The more such entities are on screen at once, the more negative impact to my FPS. 

I am assuming the frame timing is bad because when using Vsync, even though my average performance is easily capable of staying above my monitor's refresh rate (which is 75; and also the RR set in UT.ini), my fps will constantly dip well below 75 in the above described scenarios as Vsync halves the framerate to ensure 'smooth' performance when it cannot maintain the set RR. 

And given I've never experienced similar issues in the past in this game with any other renderer, I have to assume there's some kind of issue with my game install and this version of XOGL.

Let me know if that still isn't concise enough. 
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #190 - Apr 3rd, 2020 at 2:52am
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effEX wrote on Apr 2nd, 2020 at 10:13pm:
No matter what options I use in regards to STD or Vsync, I take a massive hit to my FPS whenever something like a flag, weapon pickup, or player model is currently being looked at in the game (i.e., displayed on my monitor).  E.g., from 400-500 fps to 100, while Vsync is off.  As soon as I pan away until the flag is completely off screen, my FPS goes back to 400-500. 

The more such entities are on screen at once, the more negative impact to my FPS. 


Unreal engine 1 processes all meshes, vertex or skeletal 100% on CPU. It's more or less just directly passed to the GPU as is to be drawn. Last I checked, there was some work behind the scenes to eventually fix this for 227 and UT versions >=469. This is is no bug, it's simply a bottleneck.
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #191 - Apr 3rd, 2020 at 5:18am
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...Really.  Sure, I'll play along.  So answer me this: how come I experience no such drop in performance when using other renderers in the same scenarios?

Using cwdohnal's OGL renderer, I get 350 minimum when viewing a 16-bot match while watching every bot in the middle of ctf_face.  When watching just a flag, instead of dropping to 100fps, I'm getting 900. 

I've already stated this.  There is an issue with this renderer. 
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #192 - Apr 3rd, 2020 at 5:46am
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Well, the problem is, that UE1 pushes everything point by point, vertex by vertex, in the worst case indeed one by one to the GPU. Modern renderers like new OpenGL3/4, also D3D10/11 and most likely Vulkan as well (didn't have the time yet to really check into it) LITERALLY HATE this behavior. Modern engines do batch these calls to have instead of 1 vert per call maybe 1000 verts- or even better, f.e. mesh information is directly stored in GPU memory and can be called/modified/doubled then from there when needed. As for 4.36 there is not much I can do about this behavior, even in 227 I "only" optimized the batching and I am using bindless textures (which increases, if not doubles FPS in some cases, especially when it comes to meshes), but everything else needs a huge redesign of all rendering.
In 469 they are working on a new complete rendering design although I have no idea right now in which state it is and when it will be possibly done.

Still- the real and ONLY question is if this FPS drop leads to a noticeable hang or lag / input lag of some sort while playing- nobody needs 900 FPS, if your screen does 75Hz and XOpenGL is capable of giving you 75FPS+ it should be fine in the most cases.
Of course there are other factors coming in for UE1, related to netspeed, input lag, etc., but to high FPS can even cause screen tearing and such, therefor things like VSync and SyncToDraw make sense. I can understand people want 100-120FPS in UE1 because of how it works...but 900 really ain't needed and so I am personally satisfied once gameplay is smooth and that's what I am targeting instead of just high fps rates.

That being said- did you try adaptive vsync as well?  What resolution do you run at?

I see if I can improve behavior some yet for 436.
  

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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #193 - Apr 3rd, 2020 at 9:16am
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Smirftsch wrote on Apr 3rd, 2020 at 5:46am:
Still- the real and ONLY question is if this FPS drop leads to a noticeable hang or lag / input lag of some sort while playing- nobody needs 900 FPS, if your screen does 75Hz and XOpenGL is capable of giving you 75FPS+ it should be fine in the most cases.


I've been saying in the last couple of posts that that 75fps is inconsistent, and even drops below that when enough entities are on screen simultaneously (the threshold is not that high, so it's actually very common). The game is unplayable with this renderer on my PC. 

Smirftsch wrote on Apr 3rd, 2020 at 5:46am:
I can understand people want 100-120FPS in UE1 because of how it works...but 900 really ain't needed and so I am personally satisfied once gameplay is smooth and that's what I am targeting instead of just high fps rates.


My first post in this thread was about how I'd like a frame rate limiter -_-

I'm not asking for 900fps due to how the game works, obviously.  It's unnecessary.  I am trying to say the performance I get, in the gameplay critical scenarios I've described, with an older renderer is at least 9 times better than this.  That doesn't sound right to me. 

Smirftsch wrote on Apr 3rd, 2020 at 5:46am:
That being said- did you try adaptive vsync as well?  What resolution do you run at?


Just gave it a try now (set Vsync to adaptive in UT.ini then started the game), and I get the same issue.  I'm running @ 1920x1080. 


---

I've just reinstalled version 1.0.0.9, and I do not get the same problem.  I'm running at hundreds of fps and it seems like its frametimes are not an issue.  It's about half as fast as cwdohnal's renderer still, though. 
  
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Re: XOpenGL OpenGL3 / OpenGL4 renderer for UnrealTournament
Reply #194 - Apr 3rd, 2020 at 10:16am
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Uh, don't me wrong here, I am just trying to find out what's up - and many people indeed think the more FPS the better. I didn't intend to upset you.

effEX wrote on Apr 3rd, 2020 at 9:16am:
I've just reinstalled version 1.0.0.9, and I do not get the same problem.  I'm running at hundreds of fps and it seems like its frametimes are not an issue.  It's about half as fast as cwdohnal's renderer still, though. 


That's indeed a very interesting part. This version definitely should be faster. Maybe this information helps.
  

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