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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Environment has no textures on OpenGL (Read 6300 times)
Hirobo
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Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Jul 26th, 2015 at 3:31pm
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I can't see any textures on the environment after installing 227i patch for Unreal Gold and using OpenGL.  The weapons and enemies seem to render just fine, not the surrounding, which are displaying solid color polygons.

Did a clean reinstall of UG and it's the same with 227h patch.

OpenGL works just fine in UT '99 using UTGLDR 3.7, maybe even prettier than D3D9.

Why doesn't it work on my Unreal Gold?

(Btw, is there another OpenGL driver available other than the Old Unreal project?  I dislike how OU's OpenGL comes with a bunch of files, including patched .EXE's while UTGLDR is just one .DLL file to replace)
  
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Hirobo
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2015 at 3:58pm
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Btw, is there a way to run Unreal Gold from Unreal Tournament?  Maybe that would solve the OpenGL issue...
  
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Dr.Flay™
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #2 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 1:08am
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The OldUnreal updates come with more files because they update more than just 1 thing, and add new features missing from the old versions.

If you see a difference between OpenGL and DX9 it means you have not configured the settings correctly.
The 2 matching renderers can be made to look exactly the same. OpenGL will only run faster on nVidia chips.

All renderers are supplied with basic defaults, which do not look the best, or run the fastest. You must set it for the card you have.

If you are seeing the map as colours, it is not a problem with the renderer.
It is a setting somewhere that can be disabled.

Check the renderer config and look to see if you have 
ColorizeDetailTextures=True
It should be False

It is also possible to enable the various views used in UEd, so it may be that you have swapped to one of those modes.
I don't know the commands to swap between modes, but I'm sure someone can fill those blanks.

Yes you can combine Unreal and UT with "Oldskool Ampd"
and UT with Unreal, thanks to a patched Botpack.u

If you combine them like me, you can avoid duplicating the files from both games  Cool
https://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5540
  
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Hirobo
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #3 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 5:23am
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I'm going to have to disagree that all renderers are created equal.

I have a machine circa 2003 with an ATI Radeon card.  Both UG/UT look stunning on it in the default D3D7 renderer.   By stunning, I mean it puts the newest D3D9 drivers from UTGLDR to shame!  Such is the power of a graphics accelerator.

The closest I've been able to get to it on my newer laptop with iGPU is NOT D3D9 1.3 but OpenGL 3.7!!!!

If playing UT/UG on my 2003 machine w ATI Radeon is 10/10, then D3D9 on my newer laptop is about 6/10, while OpenGL comes pretty darn close at 9.5/10!

Anyways, I got Unreal to work in UT using OlkSkool Amp'd.   The problem is Oldskool won't let me play Return to Na Pali (RTNP).   I can play RTNP using another mod (RTNP 4UT), but it doesn't let me save the game.  Has anyone found a work around?

Lastly, I don't understand the purpose of the 227 patch.  UG looks horrible in D3D9 but works out of the box, while OpenGL doesn't.  Doesn't that defeat its purpose?
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #4 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 6:17am
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What he said is, that the renderers look equal if set up if they have an equivalent setup. This may differ of course slightly depending on used graphics card and drivers, but features are the same in both.
You miss the point of the patch a bit, the purpose of 227 is way beyond D3D9 or OpenGL, these are only 2 updates included, it's a full patch with over 200 fixes and additions.
If you are interested you can find detail information here:
http://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=227_release_notes

Other than that it still has D3D7 although many modern systems seem to have pretty much trouble with this (hence the idea to include D3D8/9 and GL), some people prefer to use glide with an emulator though to have Unreal the way it was originally made. You maybe know that Unreal originally did NOT look like most people know it nowadays from 226 or UT. There are some posts about this too here in the forums.
Like: http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1427137968

Maybe I find some time to dig up some more about it, it's indeed quite interesting topic Smiley

However, I agree with Doc here, the problem you describe in the first post  is most likely only some setup problem since no such issue is known in general.
Maybe you want to post the settings you made here since this definitely works in general, so we can have a look.
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2015 at 2:04pm by Smirftsch »  

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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #5 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 3:01pm
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Tell me about the glide emulator.  The only reason why I wanted to run UG in UT is to play it as it was originally made for machines with a discreet graphics card.

Also, we're talking about an untouched GOG installation on your typical laptop with Intel Integrated Graphics.  Why does OpenGL 3.7 work with an untouched GOG UT installation, but not the 227 patch?
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #6 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 8:02pm
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Well, indeed it was made for high end cards- well back in 1998 at least- the Voodoo series. Hence the optimization and original leveldesign was based on that technology.

http://www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide
for example, but I suppose you'll find a few more if you google for glidewrapper.

Using it is quite easy, after installing you only have to enable glide as your renderer in Unreal, and that's the closest you can get to the original nowadays Smiley

And for your question- again: this is no common or known problem with 227, and unless getting more information (your config, some shots, a logfile) there is no chance to tell what's going wrong there for you.
I know from experience that especially Intel cards often have trouble with OpenGL, the renderer in 227 is mostly identical to UTGRL 3.7, except some minor modifications and some specific additions- nothing which should cause such an issue.
However, from what I remember it's build with a newer VC, newer depency libs, maybe that's enough already to cause a driver disturbance, but as said, provide some more input and maybe we can find out.
  

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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #7 - Jul 27th, 2015 at 11:48pm
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^ And I keep on telling you, I never messed with the original settings.  It's really easy to replicate my system config.  All you really need is a laptop with some sort of Intel Integrated Graphics.  I then install the GOG version of Unreal Gold and then apply the 227 patch (making sure that it refers to the GOG directory rather than the original of course).

What you guys should have done was took the UTGLDR 3.7 source code and make it work with Unreal Gold with minimal alterations.

Also, I'm reading that all NGlide does is translate calls into DirectX.  If that is the case, how can it even mimic original hardware?  The only sort of advantage that Microsoft software has over its competitors is stability.  MS has never been know for performance.  I mean you look at something like MS VirtualPC.  It's stable as hell but a joke compared to Oracle's VirtualBox, or VMWare Workstation, where performance is concerned.  As such, DirectX can never replicate a high-end graphics card circa 2003 no matter if you throw DirectX 11 or 12 at the game!
  
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #8 - Jul 28th, 2015 at 6:11am
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What a glide wrapper does is to translate the original function calls into directx calls. The original behavior is matched with that to max possible. That this never can be 100% doesn't need to be mentioned, but it indeed comes very close.

Hirobo wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 11:48pm:
All you really need is a laptop with some sort of Intel Integrated Graphics.!

I have such a setup, and it works flawlessly:
VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06), Intel HD Graphics 4600.
Using OpenGL in Win 8.1 and Linux.
It could be very well that a newer driver version for your card fixes this problem (if existing).

Hirobo wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 11:48pm:
What you guys should have done was took the UTGLDR 3.7 source code and make it work with Unreal Gold with minimal alterations.

It's exactly what I wrote above what the renderer in 227 is. Still there are plenty of possible differences as explained.
And no, you didn't tell so far that you are using default config only, could have assumed it at best...

Again, provide logs and shots otherwise there is no chance to tell what's going wrong for you.

Other than that you can check here for renderers only to be applied with 226, which are also provided, those are different and older builds (other VC's and deps) which may work any better with your card:
http://www.oldunreal.com/specialpatches.html

« Last Edit: Jul 28th, 2015 at 9:54am by Smirftsch »  

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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #9 - Jul 28th, 2015 at 6:37pm
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Well I would assume that you would infer that I was using the orginal out-of-the-box config... 

I see that you have some sort of Haswell laptop (those usually come with HD4000+ graphics).  Let it be known, patch 227 simply does not work out-of-the-box with a Core 2 Duo with Intel 945GM running Windows XP SP3 with the latest graphics and DirectX drivers installed.

Also, I will give NGlide a try this weekend, but I fail to see how games can look better with it as the way DirectX renders objects on iGPU isn't the same way a physical graphics accelerator does it, which is why the former often looks dead or washed out or less vibrant than the latter...
  
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #10 - Jul 28th, 2015 at 9:47pm
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Ahah.. an olde worlde intel
The DirectX config util shows the DDI version of your GFX chip. It will probably be 8 or maybe 7.
In which case you cannot use some of the HW features in the new renderers.
It does not matter that DirectX 9 is installed in Windows, unless the DDI version is also 9.
All DX9 functions will be done slowly in software mode.
If you have v8, then perhaps you may want to try the DX8 renderer.

Now perhaps you may want to re-read my post.

At no point did I claim the renderers are equal. Do not twist my words.
What I said is that you can configure them to look the same, if they are from the same builds.

You say that you have not changed any settings.
I repeatedly said that if you do not configure the settings, they will look different.
The defaults for all the renderers are different.
Even just changing 1 single switch will make it look very different.

This is the best guide to configuring the newer renderers
https://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=373
Even if you just skim it, things will become clearer for you.


The original limited OpenGL renderer was only ever beta, and was abandoned long before it was finished (this is why the UTGLR project started).
UTGLR still has a few bugs/issues, but is a fine update and allows the use of huge textures.
The new OldUnreal version continues where they finished, and fixes a few more issues that have been found over the years.
The new renderers are not the 227 patch. The 227 patch contains the new renderers.


Unfortunately all this is just hot-air escaping my mouth, because unless you post your logs and renderer configs there is not much we can do, other than make wild guesses.
As noted anyway, if this is a quest to get the exact look of original Unreal, then you need to get an old Voodoo card and use Glide.
Without that, your 1 and only option is the Glide wrapper.
If you don't like what it looks like, try tweaking the Glide config, and if that is not satisfactory, there is nothing anyone can do.

Other than that, just pick a new one that matches your DDI and configure it for your GFX.


Note:
Many years ago intel ran into problems with OpenGL, so they simply swapped several hardware functions for software.
To this day they have still not re-enabled them, so OpenGL on intel GFX suffers from slow performance, and high CPU usage.

There is an easy way to test your intel chip, as it is possible to bypass the block in some ways.
Get any 3D OpenGL screensaver such as http://www.reallyslick.com/screensavers/
Try them for speed.
Next change the file extensions from .scr to any mixed case, eg. .Scr .sCr .scR .ScR
Miraculously they will now run at full speed, and not hammer the CPU.

No sorry this does not work if you change to Unreal.eXe or similar Sad

The disabled HW features is the reason why DX is recommended over GL for intel.
With ATI, they often don't use the GFX RAM in GL, so again DX is the faster option.
Realisticly nVidia users are the only ones to get full benefit from using OpenGL.
  
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #11 - Jul 28th, 2015 at 10:47pm
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You clearly didn't read my post:

1.  OpenGL from UTGLDR 3.7 works just fine with UT right out of the box (config untouched)

2.  OpenGL does not work from 227 patch

3.  Dxdiag reports I have DDI version 9 (which is why OpenGL was able to work flawlessly in UT)

This is clearly a patch 227 problem and not a driver or system hardware problem!

And sorry, I have a hard time believing renderers can be configured to look alike.  DirectX was coded by a bunch of hacks whose primary aim was to make it work consistently across most hardware.  Their goal wasn't to make the best looking renderer, or one that you'd actually enjoy looking at its output and go "oooh-aaah".  Their primary goal was to create a renderer that can keep Windows as the dominant force in the gaming world b/c whatever works consistently usually gains wider adoption...
  
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #12 - Jul 28th, 2015 at 11:27pm
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Anyways, barring patch 227 problems, I can always fall back on running Unreal (Gold) thru Unreal Tournament's OpenGL UTGLDR 3.7.  This is the closest I've ever gotten to mimic the game on steroids (aka thru actual discreet graphics acceleration).  Only problem is, Return to Na Pali happens to be my favorite game over the original Unreal, and it's a sad fact that I can't save RTNP levels thru UT (but the original levels I can)...
  
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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #13 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 6:15am
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Hirobo wrote on Jul 28th, 2015 at 10:47pm:
This is clearly a patch 227 problem and not a driver or system hardware problem!

No doubt, there must be something different in 227, as already said in the beginning it could be many things, other dependencies, newer VC, other compiler options, different default settings etc, etc.. But no matter how you call it, it's no problem of the patch itself, otherwise the problem would be more common.
Can only repeat, especially with Intel cards many problems are well known, Dr. explained that really in detail.
This is the first problem like this reported and if you are referring to 227h, that was released already 4 years ago, I highly doubt it would have gone unnoticed that long if happening "everywhere". Also, it definitely does work with most other cards and systems so far, so it is most likely driver or system originated and or a problem with some dependency of it.
We maybe never find out and  it really doesn't really matter in the end, but we are trying to help you and to blame only 227 for this all over the place is not really helpful here, the only thing clear is, that it is related in any way to it, but not what's the cause of it.
OK, I don't want to argue here, I really want to find out what the problem is, just that you are unfortunately not giving us much things to work with. I mean, we are REALLY trying to help here, so maybe you shouldn't refuse any proposal we make, despite if you agree with it now or not. Sure we might be wrong here and maybe its a bug after all, unlikely or not, but this way we'll never find out.

So again: Did even you check for newer drivers, if existing for your card ?
Did you try the standalone renderers for 226 in the link I mentioned ?

I have an old laptop around here yet, not really for gaming, but with XP and an old intel card (no idea at the moment which exactly), so could you post a screenshot of the problem so that I can compare it with that?

Maybe you want to compare if the utglr 3.7 default options are the same as in 227's version? I am not sure if the defaults match, I really can't remember and possibly the culprit can be found already there.
« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2015 at 7:58pm by Smirftsch »  

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Re: Environment has no textures on OpenGL
Reply #14 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 4:12pm
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Smirftsch wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 6:15am:
This is the first problem like this reported and if you are referring to 227h, that was released already 4 years ago


I beat RTNP for the first time on 227g using D3D9 on this same system that I'm complaining about OpenGL problems.  I assume most ppl would have also picked D3D9 as it's the one they're most familiar with.

Anyways, by config do you mean the .ini files or the advanced settings with the [+] tree options?
  
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