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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links (Read 72862 times)
[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #135 - Aug 17th, 2016 at 4:11pm
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sounds to me like HRTF is triggering false positives and dampening sounds it shouldn't
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #136 - Aug 18th, 2016 at 10:47am
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also perhaps should check what EffectsChannels is set to and maybe trying to increase it.
  

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han
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #137 - Aug 18th, 2016 at 12:41pm
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Or lower it if you are not using OpenAL Soft.
  

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Morpheus2396
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #138 - Aug 25th, 2016 at 12:22pm
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Hey Guys,

I decided to show up again: I reinstalled my Windows (W7) along a fresh and up-to-date install of drivers for my hardware. A few days ago, I reinstalled UT and then installed the OpenAL renderer (latest beta version 2.4.7).

Well, the problem with the missing sounds still exist (when I use hardware OpenAL instead OALSoft) and the sudden dissappear of background music (which did not exist yet in v2.2 - I already reported that bug here in response to the release of v2.4.7 beta) does also exist yet.

Here's my current ALAudio configuration of UnrealTournament.ini

[ALAudio.ALAudioSubsystem]
ALDevice=SBXFiAudio0001
OutputRate=44100Hz
SampleRate=44100Hz
SoundVolume=255
SpeechVolume=192
MusicVolume=255
EffectsChannels=128
AmbientFactor=1.000000
DopplerFactor=0.010000
bSoundAttenuate=True
UseDigitalMusic=True
MusicInterpolation=SPLINE
MusicDsp=DSP_ALL
MusicPanSeparation=50
MusicStereoMix=100
MusicAmplify=1
EmulateOldReverb=True
UseReverb=True
OldReverbIntensity=1.000000
ProbeDevicesOnly=False
UseHRTF=Autodetect
UseSpeechVolume=False
ViewportVolumeIntensity=0.500000
ReverbIntensity=1.000000
UseAutoSampleRate=False
  
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han
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #139 - Aug 25th, 2016 at 2:09pm
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Morpheus2396 wrote on Aug 25th, 2016 at 12:22pm:
EffectsChannels=128

Start with a low value of like 8 and start to increment it until things go wrong.
  

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Morpheus2396
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #140 - Aug 25th, 2016 at 6:38pm
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han wrote on Aug 25th, 2016 at 2:09pm:
Start with a low value of like 8 and start to increment it until things go wrong.


And then slowly up to 128? Do I have to restart UT each increase? AFAIR UT needs a restart in order to get an alteration on sound channels get applied - I even recall UT crashed if I started a match (after altering the number of sound channels) without restarting the game...

M2396
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #141 - Aug 26th, 2016 at 8:57pm
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Update:

I gradually increased the amount of sound channels, like you advised it - first 16 (to give it a try), then 8, then 32, then 64, then 128. In NONE of the cases, the missing sounds Bug disappeared - it even seemed to me, that the lower the number of SCs, the faster the bug occured! (In the case of only 8 SCs, it took only a few seconds or even immediately!)

I think, the ALAudio renderer still needs to be modified in order to harmony with the newer Creative drivers...

BTW: Where can I get the Unreal Engine 2.5 SDK (UT2004 code base)? Do I need to pay money, or can I request it for free unless I don't develop standalone games with it? (only partial or total conversion mods, like Epic Games implied for the UE2.0 Runtime)

I need it in order to enhance Deus Ex: Invisible War (gameplay elements like weapon damage, the terribly poor Enemy AI and other things...), because there was never a SDK released for DX2. And I possibly need it to fix the same missing sounds bug in UT2004 with newer Creative drivers, too...

Thx,

M2396
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #142 - Aug 27th, 2016 at 10:53am
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Morpheus2396 wrote on Aug 26th, 2016 at 8:57pm:
I think, the ALAudio renderer still needs to be modified in order to harmony with the newer Creative drivers...

To be honest, chances for this are not really good. There is no real support from creative anymore and the new ALAudio still follows the original specs, so there shouldn't even be any problem. On the other hand we have OpenALSoft, with a lot of new features including a fantastic HRTF, good support and compatibility to any soundcard around. Only disadvantage of OpenALSoft compared to OpenAL is the missing hardware acceleration, which again seems to have almost no measurable impact here.
I understand that people don't want to leave a working feature behind, especially not when it comes to hardware and speed, but on the other hand, when there is nothing really to win, what's the point?
I will make some test with my Audigy again to see if there is anything I can do, but I really start to think it's about time for everyone to switch to OpenALSoft for good.
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #143 - Aug 30th, 2016 at 11:14pm
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Smirftsch wrote on Aug 27th, 2016 at 10:53am:
To be honest, chances for this are not really good. There is no real support from creative anymore and the new ALAudio still follows the original specs, so there shouldn't even be any problem.

On the other hand we have OpenALSoft, with a lot of new features including a fantastic HRTF, good support and compatibility to any soundcard around.


You already told the likely reason why older games using OpenAL (UT1, UT2004, Q3A) have the sound skipping bug - can you tell it again? It was something with "Context Buffers"...

About OpenALSoft: is OALSoft truly qualitatively on the same level with HW OpenAL? Is HRTF as good as CMSS-3D HP? If so, then I will really decide to switch to OALSoft for UT1...

But the true problem is much more troublesome: AFAIK, neither UT2004 nor other game engines (Q3A, Q3 engine based games) use OALSoft. Obviously, there are only 2 possible ways to fix OpenAL in these games:

1.) You already suggested me to notify the developers of these older games about the likely cause of this bug, so they can adapt their OpenAL implementation to newer Creative drivers. (if they're willing to do it, of course...)

2.) Is it possible to enforce these games to use OALSoft? For example, renaming OALSoft dll files as Creative OpenAL dll files (e.g. renaming oalsoft.dll to OpenAL32.dll) to trick these games to use OALSoft - or other methods to link game engines to use OALSoft...

Important: What about the UE2.5 SDK? Is it possible to get it for free under certain circumstances (for partial/total conversion mods only)? I need it for multiple purposes (Modding DX2, fixing ALAudio.u for UT2004, etc.)

Thx for advise,

M2396
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #144 - Aug 31st, 2016 at 6:16am
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The current version already contains an additional check for these, but it seems to have no impact here. Perhaps I missed something though, currently I lack the time and energy to really work on all that.

I honestly can't say if and how the HRTF can be compared with CMSS-3D, I never tried this and I am not sure if someone really can judge such a thing by listening only. I only can advice to try it.

As for 2k4 etc- I know the author of OpenALSoft put (or at least intended to put) a hack into it to make it work with the hardcoded crap they did in there, so current version should be working as replacement as far as I know by replacing the dll (but didn't test myself so far).

I don't know anything about a SDK and my requests a few years ago to get the sources in any way, perhaps based on my already existing NDA was denied with the reasoning that they wouldn't know where the code is and that they would have to strip 3rd party licensed stuff first, something like that.

However, it seems to be that nowadays the interest in such things grows again and that there are some new people @Epic who maybe care more about it, I am involved to some degree, but we have to wait and see how it works out.
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #145 - Aug 31st, 2016 at 2:47pm
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OpenAL Soft works perfectly in UT 2004 with a simple renaming (and other UE2/2.5 games too), just launch the game with this batch:

SET __ALSOFT_SUSPEND_CONTEXT=ignore
.\System\ut2004.exe


In some games you can simply specify in the config files the OpenAL implementation to be used (oalsoft.dll).
  

The task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen, but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees - E.S.
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #146 - Aug 31st, 2016 at 2:52pm
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And remember, for UE2/UE2.5 games OpenAL "System Driver" is NOT the default driver of your system (OpenAL Soft / Creative / Rapture3D / others) but the bundled one (DefOpenAL32.dll/DefOpenAL64.dll), a bundled software wrapper.

So you can end up with some confusion :p

*Software implementation of the game devs
*Software implementation of Creative
*Software implementation of OpenAL Soft team
*Hardware implementation of Creative / other Creative partners
*other implementations

The first 2 declare often the same name too (see STALKER series).....
  

The task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen, but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees - E.S.
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #147 - Nov 23rd, 2016 at 12:14am
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Update:

Yesterday, I tried to test HRTF with OALSoft in UT1 (I disabled CMSS-3D for this purpose and temporarily removed OpenAL32.dll from my UT\System folder). First, I have set up and configured HRTF in alsoft.ini. Then, I copied the latest OALSoft .dll file to UT\System and started the game with following settings:

[ALAudio.ALAudioSubsystem]
ALDevice=OpenALSoftonLautsprecherCreativeSBXFi
OutputRate=44100Hz
SampleRate=44100Hz
SoundVolume=255
SpeechVolume=192
MusicVolume=255
EffectsChannels=128
AmbientFactor=1.000000
DopplerFactor=0.010000
bSoundAttenuate=True
UseDigitalMusic=True
MusicInterpolation=SPLINE
MusicDsp=DSP_ALL
MusicPanSeparation=50
MusicStereoMix=100
MusicAmplify=1
EmulateOldReverb=True
UseReverb=True
OldReverbIntensity=1.000000
ProbeDevicesOnly=False
UseHRTF=Enable
UseSpeechVolume=False
ViewportVolumeIntensity=0.500000
ReverbIntensity=1.000000
UseAutoSampleRate=False

The Result: The sound isn't nearly as voluminous and distant as CMSS-3D - so, I renamed "soft_oal.dll" to "OpenAL32.dll" in my UT\System folder (but the OALSoft dll file inside C:\Windows\system32 & \SysWOW64\ is still with it's original name "soft_oal.dll" along "OpenAL32.dll" from Creative) and then restarted the game. HRTF still doesn't seem to work *or* it's very bad...

How can I know, whether HRTF is truly active or not? Do I have to keep CMSS-3D enabled? Or did I do something else wrong?

M2396
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #148 - Nov 23rd, 2016 at 11:08am
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ALAudio should log information about if it is enabled or not in UnrealTournament.log. But if you set UseHRTF=Enable there should be no requirement to use any alsoft.ini which will override this setting. Other than that when using alsoft.ini you can use ALSOFT_LOGLEVEL to get more information about it's state.

open a command prompt window, then: 
set ALSOFT_LOGLEVEL=3
cd to the UT System directory, then run the exe from there
you may also want to set ALSOFT_LOGFILE to a filename (with an absolute path so you know where it will be, just in case)
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #149 - Nov 26th, 2016 at 10:51pm
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Morpheus2396 wrote on Aug 25th, 2016 at 12:22pm:
Hey Guys,

I decided to show up again: I reinstalled my Windows (W7) along a fresh and up-to-date install of drivers for my hardware. A few days ago, I reinstalled UT and then installed the OpenAL renderer (latest beta version 2.4.7).

Well, the problem with the missing sounds still exist (when I use hardware OpenAL instead OALSoft) and the sudden dissappear of background music (which did not exist yet in v2.2 - I already reported that bug here in response to the release of v2.4.7 beta) does also exist yet.

Here's my current ALAudio configuration of UnrealTournament.ini

[ALAudio.ALAudioSubsystem]
ALDevice=SBXFiAudio0001
OutputRate=44100Hz
SampleRate=44100Hz
SoundVolume=255
SpeechVolume=192
MusicVolume=255
EffectsChannels=128
AmbientFactor=1.000000
DopplerFactor=0.010000
bSoundAttenuate=True
UseDigitalMusic=True
MusicInterpolation=SPLINE
MusicDsp=DSP_ALL
MusicPanSeparation=50
MusicStereoMix=100
MusicAmplify=1
EmulateOldReverb=True
UseReverb=True
OldReverbIntensity=1.000000
ProbeDevicesOnly=False
UseHRTF=Autodetect
UseSpeechVolume=False
ViewportVolumeIntensity=0.500000
ReverbIntensity=1.000000
UseAutoSampleRate=False

The bug of sound disappeared with xfi titanium pcu-e with new branch driver (2.40.xxx) is a bug from creative driver

There are lots of topics speak about this bug and creative have never made anything to resolve this bug. Now, this cards is at end of life. Then no new drivers is expected.

list of topics with this bugs
http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1400445026/15#15
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?563491-X-fi-Sound-Bug-quot-Disappear...
http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=726283
etc

creative is only shit.
  
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