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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links (Read 72838 times)
han
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #105 - Mar 15th, 2016 at 5:36pm
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Regardless it is an issue in our implementation we need to fix. Just took a quick peak on ioq3 src. Looks like it also lacks the handling code for a possible limited amount of simultanious sources playing. They neither supply ALC_[MONO/STEREO]_SOURCES as context creation argument, nor query the values for it after initialization. So the issues exists there as well and you should file a bug report against ioq3 complaining about the issue and that the handling for maximum amount of concurrently playing sources is missing.

/edit:
Regarding the EAL stuff (or how it was called), go back a few pages in the thread, we basically have all the information needed to do so. But there are currently no plans in doing this, and in the case we support them, they will likely just add input for a new system which also supplies emulation for them.
  

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Morpheus2396
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #106 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 12:42am
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han wrote on Mar 15th, 2016 at 5:36pm:
But there are currently no plans in doing this, and in the case we support them, they will likely just add input for a new system which also supplies emulation for them.


Why? I say it again, these reverb effects are phantastic - I never expected them to be so good. But I also have to say, they only sound good if listened through headphones - I also have a 7.1 speaker setup and DS3D and also the EAL reverb effects sound pretty shitty through speakers...

regarding the sound bug: this problem did NOT exist in the previous version (2.17.000x) of the Creative driver in ANY legacy game (UT99, UT2004, Q3A, etc.) - so it must be related to the new driver version. There are already existing topics on the Creative forums about this issue...

M2396
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #107 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 1:38am
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han wrote on Mar 15th, 2016 at 5:36pm:
Regardless it is an issue in our implementation we need to fix. Just took a quick peak on ioq3 src. Looks like it also lacks the handling code for a possible limited amount of simultanious sources playing. They neither supply ALC_[MONO/STEREO]_SOURCES as context creation argument, nor query the values for it after initialization. So the issues exists there as well and you should file a bug report against ioq3 complaining about the issue and that the handling for maximum amount of concurrently playing sources is missing.


I also have to mention another issue: when I use the original OpenAL implementation from Creative (OpenAL32.dll from Windows folder), I have TRUE surround/3D-sound on my headphones with both "SBXF-Audio" and "OpenALSoft@speaker" sound devices. With the OpenAL32.dll supplied with ALAudio package for UT (file size 340KB - more than 3 times the file size of Creative's OpenAL32.dll) there is NO (or at least VERY BAD) surround sound/3D-sound if listened through headphones - AFAIR I can only feel correct 3D-sound when I listen through speakers, but not headphones!

Is this a known bug or do I have to configure something?

M2396
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #108 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 1:52am
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Did you use the UseHRTF option when using a headset with OpenAL Soft? If not try enabling it.
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #109 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 2:28am
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Morpheus2396 wrote on Mar 16th, 2016 at 12:42am:
Why? I say it again, these reverb effects are phantastic - I never expected them to be so good. But I also have to say, they only sound good if listened through headphones - I also have a 7.1 speaker setup and DS3D and also the EAL reverb effects sound pretty shitty through speakers...

There are different factors. I am currently pretty deep on getting things on rendering straight and I want to focus on that. Then this is an UT only thing, there are no EAL presets for other UE1 games. The Editing tool they used only starts when you own a Creative sound card. I have no idea if they would even work on any recent OS, so we need to implement a way for creating new ones. At least they do have an documentation how to use them with OpenAL though using the EAX extension and not EFX, but that shouldn't be much of a concern.
And for me personal, I favor getting away off custom made preset to either full non preset based audio rendering or at least autogenerate these out of a map and maybe use them a bit like a shadow map. Deus Ex in particular is very interessting for this, because the used texture groups to indicate the footstep sound, so basically for the whole game and custom content there is already pretty much all data in needed for this. Unreal 227 uses an enum in the Texture class to handle similar things. In any case this is a large scale endevour, so this is pushed back a bit.

Quote:
regarding the sound bug: this problem did NOT exist in the previous version (2.17.000x) of the Creative driver in ANY legacy game (UT99, UT2004, Q3A, etc.) - so it must be related to the new driver version. There are already existing topics on the Creative forums about this issue...

To recap what is the issue. There is no minimum of supported simulatanious playing audio soures required. So they could even implement that unless you use the hint for requesting a certain amount, so always get zero simulatanious playing audio sources, e.g. no audio playback at all. This would still be not a bug on Creatives side, but a perfect (though unresoable) valid behaviour of an OpenAL implementation. Maybe they just decreased the by default minimum supported amount of simultanious playing sound source in their application, or had some compat code in, to always allow new sources and they just dropped that. So arguing that this is a bug in the driver while there are obvious bugs in the applications which would exactly explain this behaviour is unresonable. So I just checked the binary of UT2004, they don't supply the hints at context creation, nor do they query the limits. So exactly the same bug in UT2004.

However what you can try in case of UT2004, in my UT2004.ini there is a "Channels" setting. I don't know whether this is used but you should try some low values starting off 1, 2, 4, 8... and see if it works before (though most sounds will be outruled using these low settings anyway) and see where it starts to break.
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #110 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 10:31am
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Maybe Creative IS using OpenAL Soft code.....
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #111 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 12:42pm
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I notice it says in the openal soft document to install the creative labs files first for the wrapper.
Since Creative no longer host the openal site, would it be good to host it here and the ALcaps viewer ?

The newest I have is v2.2.0.7
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #112 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 4:42pm
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Actually these recommendations are only needed if you install OpenAL Soft (native) as an additional device. The scheme works like that:

OpenAL32.dll (from the Creative OpenAL)  just router, creates a list of available devices and performs a redirect to ->

wrap_oal.dll - (from the Creative OpenAL) "Generic Software" and "Generic Hardware"
sens_oal.dll - Creative SB without HW accelerated sound such a SB 24-bit, Audigy SE, X-Fi Extreme Audio etc
ct_oal.dll   - Creative SB with HW accelerated sound (EMU10K2 or EMU20k)
rtk_oal.dll  - Realtek 3DSoundBack, DS3D translator
rapture3d_oal.dll - BlueRippleSound Rapture3D
...
soft_oal.dll - original OpenAL Soft

But we use specific OpenAL Soft (U/UT/etc), not native.

Hmm. Well, install files to SysWOW64 or system32 ? Ok...
softU_oal.dll ? - renamed OpenAL32.dll from OpenAL_v2.4.5_227i.7z for Unreal only.
softUT_oal.dll ? - renamed OpenAL32.dll from OpenAL_v2.2_UT.7z for UT only.

Now we must check ini for ALDevice=DefaultDevice
Why such complexity?

In our case it doesn't matter because UT\System\OpenAL32.dll has the higher priority than OpenAL32.dll in SysWOW64 or system32
So the entry point is UT\System\OpenAL32.dll and there is no redirect. We are already here and have only one OpenAL device instead of list.
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #113 - Mar 16th, 2016 at 6:11pm
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Dr.Flay™ wrote on Mar 16th, 2016 at 12:42pm:
I notice it says in the openal soft document to install the creative labs files first for the wrapper.
Since Creative no longer host the openal site, would it be good to host it here and the ALcaps viewer ?

The newest I have is v2.2.0.7
http://ft.trillian.im/0d9824f506f3c7f4446f085bf2e8cd3eeb5144b2/6G3e3jbtnkTbHlF9T...

For the *router*, not the wrapper Cheesy
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #114 - Apr 26th, 2016 at 11:50am
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Any news from the audio front about new OpenAL dlls? Cheesy (Unreal, UT, Rune, *RUNE CLASSIC*, Deux Ex, etc.)
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #115 - Apr 26th, 2016 at 3:56pm
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lowenz wrote on Apr 26th, 2016 at 11:50am:
Any news from the audio front about new OpenAL dlls? Cheesy (Unreal, UT, Rune, *RUNE CLASSIC*, Deux Ex, etc.)

if 24h per day is not enough, use the additional 24h per night...
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #116 - May 6th, 2016 at 7:09am
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OpenAL_v2.4.7_UT.7z added. As usual, details on first page.
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #117 - May 8th, 2016 at 12:45pm
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Smirftsch wrote on May 6th, 2016 at 7:09am:
OpenAL_v2.4.7_UT.7z added. As usual, details on first page.


I tried the new version, and the sounds disappearing/skipping bug still exists after switching from OALSoft to Creative HW-OAL whenever I replace the "OpenAL32.dll" file (in my UT\System folder) provided by the ALAudio Package (v2.4.7) with the native one from my C:\Windows\System32 folder...

M2396
  
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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #118 - May 8th, 2016 at 1:24pm
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Thanks!  Cool
  

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Re: ALAudio for UnrealTournament - development and links
Reply #119 - May 8th, 2016 at 4:18pm
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Morpheus2396 wrote on May 8th, 2016 at 12:45pm:
Smirftsch wrote on May 6th, 2016 at 7:09am:
OpenAL_v2.4.7_UT.7z added. As usual, details on first page.


I tried the new version, and the sounds disappearing/skipping bug still exists after switching from OALSoft to Creative HW-OAL whenever I replace the "OpenAL32.dll" file (in my UT\System folder) provided by the ALAudio Package (v2.4.7) with the native one from my C:\Windows\System32 folder...

M2396


Guess this means that the number of sources is not the culprit of this issue. Regardless, could you post a logfile?
  

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