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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links (Read 21755 times)
Amaroq Clearwater
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #60 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 6:39am
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OpenMPT 1.28 is coming out soon, and it finally adds support for OPL-based FM synthesis in both S3M and MPTM format modules (generated in software, of course). It also has improved emulation for DMO effects on Non-Windows platforms.

This makes me hopeful that these features could eventually be implemented into the sound engine, with a bit of work. Being able to have real-time DSP effects such as Flanger and Reverb, on top of having FM instruments alongside sampled instruments could really open some new doors for custom Unreal music.

By the way, I haven't actually checked OldUnreal in a while, so I am curious about the Multi-threading status of the sound engine.
  

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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #61 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 2:36pm
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That is nice, but this project uses libXMP not OpenMPT.
  
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Amaroq Clearwater
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #62 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 7:33pm
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I recall, libXMP was actually kond of... Bad. I do feel like OpenMPT's sound engine would be a better choice even just from an ImpulseTracker and ScreamTracker compatibility standpoint.

https://github.com/schismtracker/schismtracker/wiki/Player-abuse-tests

Besides, FM synthesis instruments and DMO effects (which I incorrectly referred to as VSTis earlier on this forum) are freaking awesome, and I don't know if libXMP can support those. The fact MPTMs will soon be able to play Samples and FM instruments at the same time, while also applying DMO effects to them (even on Linux, through WineTricks), without requiring third-party libraries to be separately installed (not including WineTricks), it would just really make sense to provide those options to the Unreal modding community.

Slightly unrelated, the Opus codec is more or less finalized as far as I can tell, so giving the sound engine support for Opus-encoded sound assets might also be a considerable boon. At a high enough bitrate (around 300 to 500 kbps), Opus is nearly indistinguishable to lossless (at least compared to other lossy codecs), and being patent free means you won't have any issues with that either. On top of that, the various patents surrounding MP3 have also finally expired as of late last year. Since some Unreal Engine 1 games used MP3 to an extent IIRC, this could mean big things for those games as well.
  

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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #63 - Sep 24th, 2018 at 5:44am
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Amaroq Clearwater wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 7:33pm:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I recall, libXMP was actually kond of... Bad. I do feel like OpenMPT's sound engine would be a better choice even just from an ImpulseTracker and ScreamTracker compatibility standpoint.

https://github.com/schismtracker/schismtracker/wiki/Player-abuse-tests

Besides, FM synthesis instruments and DMO effects (which I incorrectly referred to as VSTis earlier on this forum) are freaking awesome, and I don't know if libXMP can support those. The fact MPTMs will soon be able to play Samples and FM instruments at the same time, while also applying DMO effects to them (even on Linux, through WineTricks), without requiring third-party libraries to be separately installed (not including WineTricks), it would just really make sense to provide those options to the Unreal modding community.

Slightly unrelated, the Opus codec is more or less finalized as far as I can tell, so giving the sound engine support for Opus-encoded sound assets might also be a considerable boon. At a high enough bitrate (around 300 to 500 kbps), Opus is nearly indistinguishable to lossless (at least compared to other lossy codecs), and being patent free means you won't have any issues with that either. On top of that, the various patents surrounding MP3 have also finally expired as of late last year. Since some Unreal Engine 1 games used MP3 to an extent IIRC, this could mean big things for those games as well.


It ain't that easy I'm afraid.
Back then I chose XMP because its support was great as well having good documentation and a nice api. At the the same time MPT was a mess, even to find the repository was already a challenge, not mentioning that I wasn't able to find any decent docs. Things changed nowadays I suppose, although I did not dig any deeper into this.
However, to just "switch" from  one library to another is no just interchanging a few files, it basically means to re-integrate music more or less from scratch. Granted, this ain't as difficult as incorporating sound, but it's again a lot of work and also has a great chance of introducing new bugs and needs a lot of testing. If I had to make the decision again, I'd maybe use MPT today and that not only because XMP is out of development (although it's still being bugfixed), but I am not sure if I have the energy right now to work me into MPT and I wanted to release 227j asap, but even that is a heavy task for me at the moment.

  

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Amaroq Clearwater
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #64 - Sep 29th, 2018 at 3:44pm
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Well, I suppose that is something that can be done in the long-term, very low priority.

Since the Unreal Engine 1 public headers enabled people to make their own sound subsystems and graphics renderers for the games, and assuming Unreal 227's sound engine isn't too vastly different from that used by Unreal Tournament, then perhaps an OpenMPT-based audio subsystem for 227 could be outsourced.

I'm not too sure if (or how) that would actually work though, since outsourcing any components might violate Epic's terms.
  

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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #65 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 10:08am
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Since ALAudio is (re)written from scratch by me ( initially based on some very very old also opensource code, from which is probably nothing really left anymore) with contributions from other authors only who usually have no objections against releasing their code as well (such as han, dots, some parts may be still from kerilk too) I don't see a problem in that.
On a long run a switch to openmpt may be beneficial, so we'll see.
  

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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #66 - Mar 20th, 2019 at 12:36am
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I have a SoundBlaster X-Fi and originally I deleted out OpenAL32.dll from the game's System directory so it would use the system copy, which worked except for particularly loud popping when going above/below water, with smaller crackles and pops with multiple sounds playing simultaneously or every time a sound loops. I then tried this in place of the OpenAL driver that 227i comes with. With this replacement and the included OpenAL32.dll, most of the crackling and popping is gone, but with caveats: the underwater effect no longer works and there is still a pop on many looping sounds (opening a map with a lot of looping background sounds makes this real apparent, such as isvkran32.unr). The audio is also quieter overall, even with things maxed out in Unreal.ini with the new list of settings pasted in and scrutinized. I can live with the volume difference, but the missing underwater effect and the popping in particular are somewhat problematic.
  
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #67 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 8:25pm
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.... Let's see if I can help you.
With win10:
Disable immediately:
Disable SoundBlaster optimizations.

With everyone and immediately:
Disable CMSS-3D immediately, unfortunately they create noises.
Switch to Audio mode and non-game mode.

For twenty years creative use - the only one for the game! But...

Toni-M
  Sorry if maybe I bothered you.


If, for other reasons, this is not the case, this problem is due to audio acceleration. On the Creative site there are the latest drivers, they are great and they work great ....

This same problem occurs with half life, unfortunately I could never solve.
Sorry again.
  
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #68 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 1:52am
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I actually don't use any of that stuff and the last driver released for the card was many years ago. I'd prefer not to have to go back to Galaxy to fix it.
  
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #69 - Mar 23rd, 2019 at 4:16pm
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You may want to try using the final generic creative labs driver in the system.
These worked better than the included driver with my nVidia nForce, which also had pops and weirdness.
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B-AaAvhNMtRNNThtS2o4OE44S0k&export=download
(includes the ALCaps tool)
  
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #70 - Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:31pm
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nobody in their right mind uses generic Creative drivers.


A code side workaround for XFI OpenAL drivers included in 2.40+ is specified here

https://github.com/LAGonauta/RetroArch/commit/3d0893a418cc83af9f9ac8c542e7422c81
75d8eb

It could be implemented in ALAudio fairly easily and not affect the behavior of OpenAL soft at all.

Creative has moved buffer control back to the applications end, because of unspecified issues with openal in the 2.17 packages.
  
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #71 - Mar 28th, 2019 at 4:32pm
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Dr.Flay™ wrote on Mar 23rd, 2019 at 4:16pm:
You may want to try using the final generic creative labs driver in the system.
These worked better than the included driver with my nVidia nForce, which also had pops and weirdness.
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B-AaAvhNMtRNNThtS2o4OE44S0k&export=download
(includes the ALCaps tool)


Is the installer just OpenAL32.dll?

Sora Heart wrote on Mar 24th, 2019 at 10:31pm:
nobody in their right mind uses generic Creative drivers.


A code side workaround for XFI OpenAL drivers included in 2.40+ is specified here

https://github.com/LAGonauta/RetroArch/commit/3d0893a418cc83af9f9ac8c542e7422c81
75d8eb

It could be implemented in ALAudio fairly easily and not affect the behavior of OpenAL soft at all.

Creative has moved buffer control back to the applications end, because of unspecified issues with openal in the 2.17 packages.


What should I use other than Creative's driver for the X-Fi then?
  
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #72 - Mar 29th, 2019 at 3:57am
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I could have stuck with the original nVidia creative labs driver, but the last generic version is newer and more functional than the last nForce 2 driver.
If that makes me not in my right mind, then..
Wibble wibble, hatstand.

The generic installer will but the x32 and x64 drivers in the SysWOW64 and system32 folders (if you have 64bit Windows).
The 2 files per folder are;
OpenAL32.dll v6.14.357.25
wrap_oal.dll v2.2.0.7

If you read the install instructions for the SoftOpenAL you will see that wrap_oal.dll is needed for use.

for test purposes it is best to keep your original files in the system (so make sure you have copies) and try the replacements in the game folder, as they will be loaded in preference.
Using the tool ALCaps from within the game folder will show if the drivers are there, what features they support and what versions they are.
SoftOpenAL does not have a version in it because KittyCat can't work out how to add it.
This leads it to inherit the version from the other files present.
(@Smirftsch if you could advise him on this matter, it would be helpful for all.)

To see the info for the drivers installed in the system, use ALCaps anywhere outside the game folder.
  
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #73 - Mar 31st, 2019 at 8:22pm
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Dr.Flay™ wrote on Mar 29th, 2019 at 3:57am:
I could have stuck with the original nVidia creative labs driver, but the last generic version is newer and more functional than the last nForce 2 driver.
If that makes me not in my right mind, then..
Wibble wibble, hatstand.

The generic installer will but the x32 and x64 drivers in the SysWOW64 and system32 folders (if you have 64bit Windows).
The 2 files per folder are;
OpenAL32.dll v6.14.357.25
wrap_oal.dll v2.2.0.7

If you read the install instructions for the SoftOpenAL you will see that wrap_oal.dll is needed for use.

for test purposes it is best to keep your original files in the system (so make sure you have copies) and try the replacements in the game folder, as they will be loaded in preference.
Using the tool ALCaps from within the game folder will show if the drivers are there, what features they support and what versions they are.
SoftOpenAL does not have a version in it because KittyCat can't work out how to add it.
This leads it to inherit the version from the other files present.
(@Smirftsch if you could advise him on this matter, it would be helpful for all.)

To see the info for the drivers installed in the system, use ALCaps anywhere outside the game folder.


I used the ALCaps tool to look at the different OpenAL implementations, and the one included with the X-Fi drivers is still the only one that supports all available features. Other Creative-based implementations support most of the features. The OpenALSoft implementations appear to support almost none of them.
  
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Dr.Flay™
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Re: ALAudio for Unreal 227i - development and links
Reply #74 - Apr 1st, 2019 at 1:09am
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As you have a Creative Labs chip, have you tried the official Creative ALchemy tool ?

Looking around I do see a few posts comparing and advising on how to use the SoftOpenAL driver
https://opencarnage.net/index.php?/topic/7471-open-source-eax-emulation-dsoal-be
tter-then-creatives-alchemy/
https://gnd-tech.com/community/pc/how-to-enable-3d-software-accelerated-sound-in
-openal-games/

The author of SoftOpenAL does also have an alternate build with DirectSound functionality.
  
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