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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is. (Read 8925 times)
スマイル・ドラゴン
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Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Apr 12th, 2013 at 8:46pm
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It's simply because Galaxy is actually playing it accurately as ST3.EXE would. (Who would of thought right?)

There is a bug in this module that is not noticed if you were to have been using ImpulseTracker to play this with (or edit it for that matter. Alexander Brandon switched to IT but remained saving S3M modules for whatever reason I guess because Epic requested it)



Gxx is a Tone Portamento effect. In Scream Tracker 3 (ST3.EXE) you CANNOT use a Tone Portamento effect and a instrument change at the same time.

Doing so results in the channel playing *NOTHING*.

So as you can see, Galaxy is replaying KVision as ST3.EXE would of. This bug was never noticed because under IT.EXE you CAN play a new instrument and have a tone portamento occur at the same time (the effect is nullified OBVIOUSLY as it's a new note...)


Stupid Edit: The simple fix is to remove the Tone Portamento on the first note command in each of the patterns in Order 1, and this will fix the problem.

EDIT 2: Alternatively since the first fix OBVIOUSLY involves modification of the original file... Another fix is to duplicate the replay behavior of Impulse Tracker for S3M playback.
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #1 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:21pm
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Sort of offtopic but I prefer the beta version of Night Vision.
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #2 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:26pm
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You mean the one Brandon released when he got interviewed?

Those patterns still exist in the retail KVision, making it pretty trivial to reconstruct the original song with. (apart from the twinkle parts removed out of a few patterns and another melody removed)
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #3 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:37pm
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Huh, that's interesting. How does ModPlug play it, then?
  
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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #4 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:38pm
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Modplug plays it like ImpulseTracker does.

It starts the new note and ignores the Tone Portamento effect as it has no effect due to it not having a playing note to modify.
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #5 - Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:33am
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Interesting discovery you made there!
Now I'm curious how that would sound like, I only have Mod Plug Tracker.
  
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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #6 - Apr 13th, 2013 at 7:04am
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Sly. wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 5:33am:
Now I'm curious how that would sound like, I only have Mod Plug Tracker.


Okay let me be clear, very clear.

OpenMPT has code forked off the schismtracker project, for the most part it provides ALMOST bit-wise identical playback to ImpulseTracker, for this VERY REASON, ModPlug Tracker is analogous to ImpulseTracker when it comes to playing back S3M's.

So the result is you will HEAR the missing notes as IT was not affected by this bug that ST3.EXE apparently has. ModPlug Player also is unaffected by this bug.

If you want to make KVision work properly in Galaxy, just load the damn thing up in ModPlug Tracker, go through the patterns and remove the GF0 from the first note of the section I highlighted in the image. Save the file and load it into UnrealEd and play it back.

OR just convert the thing to IT and load it instead. (I'm just saying that out of nowhere and I don't feel like testing that theory myself seeing how Galaxy does not really play IT files properly anyways)
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #7 - Apr 13th, 2013 at 10:03am
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And what about FMod? Does it also play it correctly?
  
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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #8 - Apr 13th, 2013 at 9:45pm
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As far as I remember it played it properly. (or improperly since this is a ST3.EXE bug so it's not playing it accurately.)

Don't you use FMod or rather OpenAL GE? I don't understand why you'd ask that if you use 227.

Speaking of accuracy, while I was randomly browsing Google searches of demoscene related errata I apparently found some project (don't remember it's name or link to though...) of recreating bit-wise ST3.EXE playback as a third party library.

I wonder if that got anywhere and for that matter recreates the bug demonstrated here.
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #9 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 7:48am
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Yes, I'm using FMOD for music (OpenAL also uses FMOD for music; by itself it's only capable of playing sounds, not tracker music). So I'm just curious to know if there is an actual difference between Galaxy and FMOD here. If, like you said, Nightvision was created with ImpulseTracker but saved as S3M, then the one not playing it correctly is Galaxy, and so the more accurate representation of the track can be had by using FMOD.

Of course, fixing the track itself so that Galaxy could play it fine as well might also be worth considering.
  
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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #10 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 9:38pm
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Yeah, I could also reduce the filesize of KVision by actually deleting the orders that aren't even used at all by it.

When I get around to doing it I'll post a updated .umx file for people to "patch" their installs with. It will not cause version mismatches as it will have the same GUID as the original file.

EDIT: To clarify this once and for all, it is inaccurate that other module players are correctly playing Order 1 because they are not reproducing the bug ST3.EXE has, thus the playback accuracy of the whole module is compromised.

Galaxy reproduces this bug so the playback is bit-wise accurate.

FMOD, IT.EXE, libmodplug, schism; does not reproduce the bug so it is inaccurately playing back the module.

Another good example (and this too is due to a bug not in ST3.EXE but in replayer engines themselves) is Satellite One by Purple Motion. Apart from Future Crew's ST3.EXE and their playback engines they wrote for their demos, the module is not played back correctly on any known replayer. (there is a stuck note at one part due to the volume slide being ignored)
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #11 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 10:13pm
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Don't delete any orders because custom content may actually prompt them to play.
  
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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #12 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 10:29pm
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The patterns aren't even assigned to orders so it's impossible within Galaxy or even FMod to touch those patterns.

What I COULD do, is make a Order 2 that plays the intro to KVision but that could take some time. (having to reshuffle the whole order list and what not)
  

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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #13 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 4:52am
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スマイル・ドラゴン wrote on Apr 14th, 2013 at 9:38pm:
EDIT: To clarify this once and for all, it is inaccurate that other module players are correctly playing Order 1 because they are not reproducing the bug ST3.EXE has, thus the playback accuracy of the whole module is compromised.

Galaxy reproduces this bug so the playback is bit-wise accurate.

FMOD, IT.EXE, libmodplug, schism; does not reproduce the bug so it is inaccurately playing back the module.


But if, as you said, Brandon used Impulse Tracker to create the music, then what he heard is what we hear in FMod, and not Galaxy, so it's Galaxy that is not playing it correctly.

And yea, it would be nice if it was possible to restore the intro in a new section.
  
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Re: Reason why KVision order 1 sounds the way it is.
Reply #14 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 6:51am
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What he HEARD is ImpulseTracker's method of doing things. It is not accurate in any way to ST3.EXE's playback routine.

How can I even explain this further? Bit-wise accurate playback mandates that ALL the glitches\bugs are present and everything is mixed according to the original playback routines of the mother tracker.

Accurate playback:
  • ST3.EXE
  • Future Crew musicdisk player
  • Galaxy 3D Audio for Unreal
Inaccurate playback:
  • IT.EXE (all versions)
  • libmodplug
  • MikMod
  • FMod
  • schism


There is possibly more to add to the list but it's late over here and I don't really care to test every single thing on scene.org that plays back S3M to judge accuracy.

If things were handled as it was in ST3.EXE then Brandon wouldn't of had this fallacy in KVision and this part would of been playing properly when Unreal shipped. Hence the critical nature of handling proper bit-wise accurate playback to the original tracker.
  

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rk-__-ght.: / κυνικός Δράκων / スマイル・ドラゴン / Draco Nihil
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