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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release (Read 39902 times)
Gizzy
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #30 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 3:12pm
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Seriously Leo, why did you have to go and contact DE about this? You are making things worse...
  
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nobody
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RE: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #31 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 3:21pm
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[quote author=2E20333330490 link=1245841201/20#30 date=1245942762]Seriously Leo, why did you have to go and contact DE about this? You are making things worse...[/quote]

Because I told him to. This all sounded too good to be true. I still don't believe any of it. GE appearantly
believes in his cause, but he might have no legal standing. One might say I'm doing you a service by bursting the bubble before anyone gets hurt.
  
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GreatEmerald
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #32 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 3:28pm
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I don't see how this can be illegal. Think about it: it's already 10 years after the release of Unreal. The whole source code of DooM was published only 4 years after DooM's release! And this is not even the source code, they are harmless betas, which will even be protected from unauthorised use.
I'm sure we'll get official permission once we get to contact them. I don't see any harm at all - this might attract more people, which means more Unreal Anthology sales and more money to them.
  
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nobody
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RE: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #33 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 3:44pm
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[quote author=132631352011393126353830540 link=1245841201/20#32 date=1245943737]I don't see how this can be illegal. Think about it: it's already 10 years after the release of Unreal. The whole source code of DooM was published only 4 years after DooM's release![/quote]

That wasn't just done by a former employee. Carmack released it after having someone clean it up and undoubtably consulting w/ their (read: ID Software's) laywer. They even created a license for the initial release, the DOOM Source Code license, before re-releasing it under the GPL a year later.

[quote]And this is not even the source code, they are harmless betas, which will even be protected from unauthorised use.[/quote]

Protected... from unauthorised use? *clickety-clickety translator* CDPath=/data/games/Install/Unreal.iso/? Or should we resort to cracks? No-one is gonna fall for that; and what about content that is used elsewhere commercially? That can harm, and quite easily.

[quote]I'm sure we'll get official permission once we get to contact them. I don't see any harm at all - this might attract more people, which means more Unreal Anthology sales and more money to them.[/quote]

Given DE's response, how can you be so sure? Besides, your previous posts implied that you already got permission, that is was a done deal. Appearantly, there's still this hurdle to take.
  
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GreatEmerald
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #34 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 3:49pm
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[quote author=405F4F4851554F493A0 link=1245841201/20#33 date=1245944676]Protected... from unauthorised use? *clickety-clickety translator* CDPath=/data/games/Install/Unreal.iso/? Or should we resort to cracks? No-one is gonna fall for that; and what about content that is used elsewhere commercially? That can harm, and quite easily.

Given DE's response, how can you be so sure? Besides, your previous posts implied that you already got permission, that is was a done deal. Appearantly, there's still this hurdle to take.[/quote]
If you're talking in that sense, then releasing Unreal in the first place was a harmful mistake. Those who have pirated copies can resell them anywhere even now. Betas are not harmful at all.

The post implied nothing - it just reveals the contents of the patch. Sure, there is a possibility that permission won't be given, but like I've said, I don't see how this is harmful. And I don't really take that DE response seriously - we don't have any visual proof of questions that were asked nor that the reply is real.
  
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Gizzy
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #35 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 3:49pm
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I fully agree with GreatEmerald. The release of DOOM's Source allowed modders to create amazing mods because of the resources available to them (the source code). The betas are harmless and there is nothing that can ever be done to prevent piracy. We can only release these betas in the hope that people who are true fans of the game, will buy the game, and not download it.

I always wondered about all the unused content during it's 4 year development phase. Now we have the opportunity to see these amazing features. As someone who is especially interested in the beta content, I could not contain my excitement when I heard about all the beta releases. Now that the other tech demo (Not the '95 one), the first ever proto (The one on the floppys) and the many other betas, alphas, protos and pre-releases are going to be released, I find it hard to believe why anyone would be willing to oppose this.

  
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RE: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #36 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 3:57pm
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[quote author=192C3B3F2A1B333B2C3F323A5E0 link=1245841201/20#34 date=1245944958][quote author=405F4F4851554F493A0 link=1245841201/20#33 date=1245944676]Protected... from unauthorised use? *clickety-clickety translator* CDPath=/data/games/Install/Unreal.iso/? Or should we resort to cracks? No-one is gonna fall for that; and what about content that is used elsewhere commercially? That can harm, and quite easily.

Given DE's response, how can you be so sure? Besides, your previous posts implied that you already got permission, that is was a done deal. Appearantly, there's still this hurdle to take.[/quote]
If you're talking in that sense, then releasing Unreal in the first place was a harmful mistake. Those who have pirated copies can resell them anywhere even now. Betas are not harmful at all.

The post implied nothing - it just reveals the contents of the patch. Sure, there is a possibility that permission won't be given, but like I've said, I don't see how this is harmful.[/quote]

You're comitting the sin of logic. DE is a commercial venture, not an idealistic one. The rules of... 'business' seem to apply.

[quote]And I don't really take that DE response seriously - we don't have any visual proof of questions that were asked nor that the reply is real.[/quote]

I'll ask Leo_TCK to up the entire msg.

Note that I'll be unavailable for a few hours due to RL commitments -- can we postpone the flame war until then? Thanks :)

EDIT: fix quote tags
« Last Edit: Jun 25th, 2009 at 7:53pm by nobody »  
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nobody
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RE: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #37 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:05pm
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[quote author=67697A7A79000 link=1245841201/20#35 date=1245944995]I fully agree with GreatEmerald. The release of DOOM's Source allowed modders to create amazing mods because of the resources available to them (the source code). The betas [i]are[/i] harmless and there is nothing that can ever be done to prevent piracy.[/quote]

Except not releasing them in the first place. Besides, early legal action can have quite a chilling effect -- something from which a piece may never fully recover.

[quote]We can only release these betas in the hope that people who are true fans of the game, will buy the game, and not download it.[/quote]

'True fans' don't always have the money, the resources, and/or the right people around them to buy the game. Besides, the last time a real version was sold... when was it? 4-6 years ago?

[quote]I always wondered about all the unused content during it's 4 year development phase. Now we have the opportunity to see these amazing features.[/quote]

Amazing? I'm sure some think of SuSe as amazing. I usually call those people 'amateurs'.

Don't take me wrong -- I worship DooM. I just don't generally worship it's source ports.

[quote]As someone who is especially interested in the beta content, I could not contain my excitement when I heard about all the beta releases.[/quote]

*That's* the problem I see here. You can't contain your excitement at the thought, and go take it for granted. It's short-sightedness, but I'm not sure you're self-concious enough for others to be able to blame you for it.

[quote]Now that the other tech demo (Not the '95 one), the first ever proto (The one on the floppys) and the many other betas, alphas, protos and pre-releases are going to be released, I find it hard to believe why anyone would be willing to oppose this.[/quote]

Before I believe *that*, I'd like to see the actual release happen, and a pleased-to-neutral reply from DE and Epic.

You want a crusty old 6502 hacker to read those floppies (if he doesn't freak out on IBM PCs that is :^)

EDIT: Now I'm really gone -- cya in a few hours :)
  
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #38 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:08pm
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[quote author=122730342110383027343931550 link=1245841201/20#34 date=1245944958][quote author=405F4F4851554F493A0 link=1245841201/20#33 date=1245944676]Protected... from unauthorised use? *clickety-clickety translator* CDPath=/data/games/Install/Unreal.iso/? Or should we resort to cracks? No-one is gonna fall for that; and what about content that is used elsewhere commercially? That can harm, and quite easily.

Given DE's response, how can you be so sure? Besides, your previous posts implied that you already got permission, that is was a done deal. Appearantly, there's still this hurdle to take.[/quote]
If you're talking in that sense, then releasing Unreal in the first place was a harmful mistake. Those who have pirated copies can resell them anywhere even now. Betas are not harmful at all.

The post implied nothing - it just reveals the contents of the patch. Sure, there is a possibility that permission won't be given, but like I've said, I don't see how this is harmful. And I don't really take that DE response seriously - we don't have any visual proof of questions that were asked nor that the reply is real.[/quote]
I hate posting others emails, but ok, here is your proof:
[img]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1914/theconvo0.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4880/theconvo1.jpg[/img]

  

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GreatEmerald
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #39 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:18pm
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As I thought, the mail doesn't contain any details. I'm pretty sure DE simply forgot about the deal they made - after all, it's been 10 years! The original contract should remind them about that. They can't break contracts like that, too.

And there isn't anything breaking the laws of business, as zeur said. Betas attract people, they buy Anthology, DE and Epic get money. And really, anyone who pirates games can not ever be true fans, because buying the game itself is showing your loyalty in the first place.

And overall why would you oppose this? You what, don't want to see the betas or what? Really, this isn't harmful at all, and makes everyone happy. I don't see much to discuss about here. If we get permission, that's good. If not, we'll attempt again; either way, we'll keep you informed about that. There will be no releases if there is no official permission, you can be sure.
  
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #40 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:27pm
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I want to see them, but if the obtaining includes not gaining permission it is a problem (and risc for many people to suffer conequences) and I was actually excited until I started diving into details and realizing that who is releasing the betas is not anyone from develeoper team (besides I can see it was violated here already by sending the floppy disks to shivaxi which is probably the most stupid move ever and that was without any permission and Shivaxi talks about it openly here, it is not my fault if they find about all the stuff that is going on here).

Etc....
  

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Gizzy
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #41 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:29pm
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GreatEmerald wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:18pm:
As I thought, the mail doesn't contain any details. I'm pretty sure DE simply forgot about the deal they made - after all, it's been 10 years! The original contract should remind them about that. They can't break contracts like that, too.

And there isn't anything breaking the laws of business, as zeur said. Betas attract people, they buy Anthology, DE and Epic get money. And really, anyone who pirates games can not ever be true fans, because buying the game itself is showing your loyalty in the first place.

And overall why would you oppose this? You what, don't want to see the betas or what? Really, this isn't harmful at all, and makes everyone happy. I don't see much to discuss about here. If we get permission, that's good. If not, we'll attempt again; either way, we'll keep you informed about that. There will be no releases if there is no official permission, you can be sure.



Agreed fully. Didn't Smirf have to ask multiple times to get the source for Unreal? He was dedicated enough and cared enough not to give up right away. Epic trusted him enough not to give it to anyone else, and he has abided by that promise even to this day. Thanks to the source release, Unreal has had many new updates, and I believe that the release of these betas will bring much new content to Unreal. Not only that, but knowing more about the history of the game is something I am looking forward to. (New cinematics, maps, story and such..)
  
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Gizzy
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #42 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:33pm
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Leo T_C_K wrote on Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:27pm:
I want to see them, but if the obtaining includes not gaining permission it is a problem (and risc for many people to suffer conequences) and I was actually excited until I started diving into details and realizing that who is releasing the betas is not anyone from develeoper team (besides I can see it was violated here already by sending the floppy disks to shivaxi which is probably the most stupid move ever and that was without any permission and Shivaxi talks about it openly here, it is not my fault if they find about all the stuff that is going on here).

Etc....


Trust us Leo, I'm sure that this person with the betas has already investigated all the legal issues and would not have posted here at all if he knew he would not have permission.
  
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GreatEmerald
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #43 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:44pm
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Yes, I again assure you that without any confirmation there will be no data released, so there is nothing to worry about!
  
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Shivaxi
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Re: Upcoming Unreal Alpha and Beta versions release
Reply #44 - Jun 25th, 2009 at 4:46pm
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Wow where did Zeurkous come from?  Haven't seen him in years.

And Leo...don't you dare call me "boy".  I'm probably twice your age.  As I said before, you know nothing about me, so you should have no reason to doubt me.  I have been working with computers at the age of 3...and my father has been building them from scratch most of his life.  This is why I even have a 5 1/2 " floppy disc drive in the first place.  The normal 3 1/2 " Floppy's that the other alhpas are on, I believe "the guy" has drives for those himself.  But the 5 1/2 " ones are so incredibly rare that he does not own nor know anyone in his local area who does.  Do you really think he would be mailing this to me if he could do it locally?

As for where I live, I live in New York, which is close to Canada anyway, so the trip isn't all that far.  "the guy" tells me that he is only 6-8 hours from New York by car, as he lives close to the border of Canada.  Mailing isn't so unreliable though as you make it seem, so I'm really not sure what your problem is or why you seem to NOT want these to get released...contacting DE and all...
  

 
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