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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Translations needed / 227 Localizations (Read 100526 times)
Neon_Knight
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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #300 - May 6th, 2018 at 7:23pm
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Smirftsch wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 5:23am:
Neon_Knight wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 4:21pm:
Also, I think that instead of a thread, localization could have its own subforum. That way localization teams can have a better coordination.


Can do that, but most translations have been done a long time ago and there are not many working on it on a regular basis.

Well, if there's one thing I've learned by editing the Unreal Wiki is that you won't get too far without a clear plan and some organization. Consensus must be reached in the shortest time possible by the available people about even the simplest of things such as the name of weapons and even how we should call the "Mutator" (in sucky and inconsistent Spanish official translations they're called "Mutadores" in UT and UT3 and "Mutágenos" in UT200X series, the old translation seemed to call them "Agentes mutadores"). People who contributed to this thread must be invoked (if possible, via PM) so that consensus can be reached somehow.
  

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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #301 - May 6th, 2018 at 9:34pm
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In a Wiki, you are working with dozens of people. If there's one thing you'll soon find out, it's that this job is a lonely one. At some point, you will be forced to take decisions with no external inputs and just follow your dreams, bro choose a translation according to your best judgment.

There's unfortunately not many people involved in localizing Unreal. We're lucky to have one person for a given language, let alone several native speakers to debate grammatical points or choice of words. Sad
  

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Smirftsch
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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #302 - May 7th, 2018 at 8:03am
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Masterkent wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 11:03am:
I have some questions regarding wiki:

1. What is the recommended way to convert existing localization files to the corresponding wiki pages and vice versa?

1.1. Suppose I want to upload N localization files for a particular language to the wiki. What is the best way to do this? [The presence of redundant empty lines in many pages serves an evidence that some wiki users choose improper methods.]

1.2. Suppose I want to obtain all localization files for a particular language from the corresponding wiki pages. What is the best way to do this? (Is there anything better than manual copy-pasting of each wiki page to the respective file one by one?)

2. Is there any way to sort wiki pages from a certain category by date & time of the last page modification and make the date of the last modification displayed for each sorted item? If I want to figure out which wiki pages that represent int localization files have been modified since some date (e.g. 2014-01-01), how can I do this quickly?

Smirftsch wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 5:23am:
Beside that I think it makes sense to head towards 227j, since this will be the new stable version sooner or later.

People who work on translations for menus of 227j should have access to 227j in order to be able to check how translated text looks in the game. Changing the content of int files needs special coordination, because

1) merging independently modified versions of the same file may be painful,

2) someone's work may be wasted due partial or complete overriding of changed items in one version by the respective items in other version.


One of the reasons I had to integrate a wiki into the page was indeed the translation, because all I could to at best back then was to fill in missing data with some google translation.
My idea was to put everything in there so that native speakers can do these things, no need to explain why a wiki should be perfect for such a purpose.
Once a new release is in sight I wanted to get the data and compare/merge it with my files- so the latest version should be always in the wiki - my stuff is definitely outdated, except the .int files which I try to keep up to date of course.
I think I did not add many 227j specific changes into the wiki so far, at least not in the last months but most changes regarding that have been probably done anyway recently by you fixing up UMenu. I also have to admit that I lost track at some point because 227j became so much more than initially imagined.

To give translators the access to 227j however does make sense in any case.

1. Back then when initially filling the wiki with data I was using OpenOffice, which offered a way to save in wiki format. Haven't checked that quite a while though, no idea if this still exists and how well it works. This is also the reason for the formatting as mentioned in 1.1.

1.2 I always wanted to check for some wiki exporter, or rather, the last time I checked there was nothing which made it any better than that. That's also a long time ago too, so I will check again what there is now.
Edited:
a short search showed up this: https://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Export which seems to be some standard functionality by now. Need to test yet how suitable it is.

Edited:
Added another extension to be tested yet, DataTransfer which can be found here: https://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:ViewXML

Edited:
Both methods above seem to end in .xml - can't say yet if this is of any advantage...

2. I never found the time myself to get really deep into wiki editing. Perhaps some wiki guru can answer this, sorry.


Neon_Knight wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 7:23pm:
Smirftsch wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 5:23am:
Neon_Knight wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 4:21pm:
Also, I think that instead of a thread, localization could have its own subforum. That way localization teams can have a better coordination.


Can do that, but most translations have been done a long time ago and there are not many working on it on a regular basis.

Well, if there's one thing I've learned by editing the Unreal Wiki is that you won't get too far without a clear plan and some organization. Consensus must be reached in the shortest time possible by the available people about even the simplest of things such as the name of weapons and even how we should call the "Mutator" (in sucky and inconsistent Spanish official translations they're called "Mutadores" in UT and UT3 and "Mutágenos" in UT200X series, the old translation seemed to call them "Agentes mutadores"). People who contributed to this thread must be invoked (if possible, via PM) so that consensus can be reached somehow.


As usual, to get things done like this, there needs to be someone taking care about it. Any volunteers? Cheesy
« Last Edit: May 7th, 2018 at 11:46am by Smirftsch »  

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Neon_Knight
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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #303 - May 7th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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I'm willing to coordinate the spanish translation. It wouldn't be the first time that I get to coordinate a project related with a game lol.
  

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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #304 - May 7th, 2018 at 4:57pm
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Smirftsch wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 8:03am:
One of the reasons I had to integrate a wiki into the page was indeed the translation, because all I could to at best back then was to fill in missing data with some google translation.
My idea was to put everything in there so that native speakers can do these things, no need to explain why a wiki should be perfect for such a purpose.

I think, wiki is far from being perfect for that since it serves a different purpose: it allows creating and displaying a documentation as a set of handy web pages including a properly formatted text and hyperlinks. Wiki is not supposed to be a repository of arbitrary text files and, as far as I can see, it does not support even basic file operations. I presume, using something like GitHub or SourceForge with SVN instead would be much more convenient.

Smirftsch wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 8:03am:
1. Back then when initially filling the wiki with data I was using OpenOffice, which offered a way to save in wiki format. Haven't checked that quite a while though, no idea if this still exists and how well it works. This is also the reason for the formatting as mentioned in 1.1.

I thought that the OU wiki might have a special option to upload a raw text file and generate a properly tagged page for it (including the "Category" hyperlink).

Smirftsch wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 8:03am:
1.2 I always wanted to check for some wiki exporter, or rather, the last time I checked there was nothing which made it any better than that. That's also a long time ago too, so I will check again what there is now.
Edited:
a short search showed up this: https://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Export which seems to be some standard functionality by now. Need to test yet how suitable it is.

Edited:
Added another extension to be tested yet, DataTransfer which can be found here: https://www.oldunreal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:ViewXML

Edited:
Both methods above seem to end in .xml - can't say yet if this is of any advantage...

Well, that output definitely doesn't look good. It needs a tool that would parse the data, remove all wiki tags and write the final output into a bunch of files... In case of SourceForge, it would be possible to download all files in a single zip archive by means of a few clicks (f.e., see https://sourceforge.net/p/x264vfw/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/).

Using appropriate tools could save a lot of time for all of us.
  
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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #305 - May 7th, 2018 at 9:50pm
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I don't have problems with Wiki usage, but I agree with Masterkent that a github/svn commit should serve better this part of the project. Besides, Github allows web editing of text files without the user having to install or download anything into the PC (the tedious part may be the fork/modify/pull-request part, but even that can be solved by managing permissions).
  

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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #306 - May 8th, 2018 at 4:16pm
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Indeed I didn't think about using a github or svn for such a purpose so far- and back then at least github wasn't known very much iirc Tongue

Aside the technical aspect in which you are definitely right, do you really think it would be of advantage for the average user? I doubt that many "internet users only" kind of people are having much idea about github if you know what I mean.
A wiki however is pretty much common knowledge even for people who are not having much experiences with all this stuff, so anyone can contribute here.
The lack of a suitable export right now is surely annoying but its nothing you do (or rather me in this case, lol) on a daily basis, only before a new patch release and so I accepted the fact so far to copy any paste it if really necessary (while I have not given entirely up yet digging for some more handy exporter).
  

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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #307 - May 11th, 2018 at 4:29pm
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Smirftsch wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
Aside the technical aspect in which you are definitely right, do you really think it would be of advantage for the average user? I doubt that many "internet users only" kind of people are having much idea about github if you know what I mean.

I guess, an average user won't even try to check how some localization works (when installed) if he needs to manually copy-paste and reformat dozens of files one by one. Unlike translating a text, such operations constitute a boring monotonous work which needlessly consumes a lot of time.

Note that the possibility to download the latest available version of the whole translation at once could also be useful for ordinary players who don't contribute to the project.

Smirftsch wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
A wiki however is pretty much common knowledge even for people who are not having much experiences with all this stuff, so anyone can contribute here.

As far as I can see, GitHub lets authorized people read and edit files by means of a web browser, so it doesn't require installing a specific software and/or a deep knowledge of version control systems either.

Smirftsch wrote on May 8th, 2018 at 4:16pm:
The lack of a suitable export right now is surely annoying but its nothing you do (or rather me in this case, lol) on a daily basis

Since I find working with the wiki inconvenient, I simply don't touch it and ATM I'm working with my local copy of *.rut files instead. Any recent contributions to the Russian translation which might be done on the wiki by other people have big chances to be lost after I submit my edition, because neither of us is aware of the current situation with the other branch. I think, this is not exactly what those contributing people might expect.
  
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Re: Translations needed / 227 Localizations
Reply #308 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:32am
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mmh...well no real contradictions from my side against github. We surely can give it a try with it, if really wanted the wiki can still be used to display only current state...or perhaps there is some import for this... just need to check if it makes sense to set up some own service here for it or use some free repository service out there.
  

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