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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Bump mapping support? (Read 32500 times)
Hellkeeper
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #15 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 8:07pm
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Hyper wrote on Jun 17th, 2009 at 1:43pm:
Do we need bumpmapping ("fake" details) when we can have textures of 4096x4096 or even bigger ("real" details)?


Different things. One can't replace the other.
  

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GreatEmerald
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #16 - Jun 18th, 2009 at 9:01am
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Indeed, bumpmaps give us the illusion of 3D, S3TC gives us details.
  
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-Zlodey-
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #17 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 6:31pm
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Off cource we need it!
Try to set bump on and off in doom3/quake4, and you WILL SEE the difference.
Can hi-resolution texture have dynamic shadow in different direction inside "deep" areas? Well, its basics of modern graphics, you cant made all with hi-detailed models.
Its easy way to add some "3d" into models or maps.
  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #18 - Jun 26th, 2012 at 10:46am
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About realtime shadowing, I found out that back in 1998 Creative Labs released a patch for Unreal to add support for realtime shadow mapping - and it actually casted from light sources!
However, this pach only supported version 220 of Unreal and could pnly run on Creative's own S3 Savage 3D Accelerator. And as Epic continued to patch Unreal, Creative's engine modification lost popularity (it wasn't extremely popular in the first place) and became obscure. Ironically, 3 years or so later, Creative approached John D. Carmack, lead programmer of id Software - one of Epic's earliest rivals - while he was developing id Tech 4 (and the game to pioneer it, Doom 3), suggesting a deal for him - He may use their shadowing algorithm, as long as he also implements EAX 3.
So I was thinking, maybe you could try to get the source code for the patch, and look at the parts enabling the realtime shadows. Then you could add it into Unreal 227.
And Unreal 2 also uses light-sourced shadows, so you could probably check its codebase as well.
And Duke Nukem Forever was made using a heavily-modified Unreal Engine 1. And it has normal mapping. If you manage to find how it does the bump mapping, you might also try to add it into the OldUnreal patch. Other options may be Pariah, Tribes: Venegance, and BioShock.
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #19 - Jun 26th, 2012 at 12:08pm
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To make it short, as much I'd love to have such things myself, it's not that easy.

Creatives stencil shadows had a lot of flaws and were far from working perfect. Also sources not available.

Unreal2 sources not available: Epics answer: "We don't have the bandwidth to...<put in some random request of question here, this one included>"

Not Unreal related engines differ to much, would result in the same situation as now- a complete rewrite required.

An implementation of both realtime shadows and bumpmapping makes not much sense at the moment, since the first step would have to be to move the lighting system from the engine into the graphics card. Can it be done? Sure. Can I do it? Not at the moment, not the time, not the health, not the money it would require me to have the needed time.

Sorry. I really would love to have it myself.
  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #20 - Jun 26th, 2012 at 3:41pm
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Smirftsch wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 12:08pm:
Can it be done? Sure. Can I do it? Not at the moment, not the time, not the health, not the money it would require me to have the needed time.


It's always about you isn't it, don't you care about our feelings ?
« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2012 at 10:14am by Hellkeeper »  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #21 - Jun 26th, 2012 at 5:00pm
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I love your refreshing way of seeing things. Nope, actually I'm pure egoist.
  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #22 - Jun 27th, 2012 at 5:39am
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Nobody likes egoists...
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #23 - Jun 27th, 2012 at 11:08am
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iLikeTheUDK wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 5:39am:
Nobody likes egoists...


Most of the time I like me Tongue
  

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iLikeTheUDK
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #24 - Jun 27th, 2012 at 12:04pm
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Yup, the only people who like egoists are the egoists themselves...
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #25 - Jun 28th, 2012 at 10:15am
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Achievement unlocked : Signalman.
Derail a thread in one sentence.
  

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Turboman.
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #26 - Jun 30th, 2012 at 10:39am
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Then lets put it back on its track!

Bumpmapping is soooooo 2001! we need to stay with the times with dx11 tesselation  Wink Wink Wink
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #27 - Jun 30th, 2012 at 11:59am
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somehing more simple: can it be done so we can configure the direction in UED of the real time shadows we have right now? this would make the shadows look way more realistic in outdoor areas.
  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #28 - Jun 30th, 2012 at 2:34pm
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...Wait...

Was bumpmapping used in games already in 2001? I thought the first games to use it were released in 2004 - maybe 2003/2 at the earliest. And did any device except for PCs support it already in this time?
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #29 - Jun 30th, 2012 at 2:45pm
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iLikeTheUDK wrote on Jun 30th, 2012 at 2:34pm:
...Wait...

Was bumpmapping used in games already in 2001? I thought the first games to use it were released in 2004 - maybe 2003/2 at the earliest. And did any device except for PCs support it already in this time?



Almost all x-box games around then had bumpmapping, probably most noticeable was halo which came around 2001.
On the pc even older games like tomb raider, outcast, battlezone, operation flashpoint, and giants citizen kabuto were among the early adopters.
Most of them were handled in software/CPU or specific Matrox hardware though, and giants required atleast a geforce 256 card.
  
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