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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Bump mapping support? (Read 31731 times)
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Bump mapping support?
Mar 26th, 2008 at 5:05pm
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Is there gonna be bump mapping support and shadowing support for unreal on higher end PC's with gfx cards i.e. geforce 6600+ ?
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #1 - Mar 26th, 2008 at 5:39pm
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not in the near future. Although bump mapping may be not that difficult to implement, it requires still time I currently don't have.
Realtime shadows are way more complex than that and thus would require even more time.
Although both are long wanted dreams of maybe all of us, it needs to wait until Unreal 227 reaches final state and I have time to concentrate on such things.
  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #2 - Mar 26th, 2008 at 9:39pm
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Real time shadows... That would make Skaarj really spooky, like at Vandora ruins standing in front of a light.
What about footsteps? They were promised some time earlier...
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #3 - Mar 26th, 2008 at 9:54pm
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footstepsounds and footprints are implemented and fully working in 227 already. Just need some changes in texture properties. Read the 227 new features topic for details.
  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #4 - Mar 28th, 2008 at 1:08pm
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Yes, but not quite a huge explanation on how to do that :\ And any way to do that in Linux?
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #5 - Mar 28th, 2008 at 1:37pm
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I was able to realize a lot of things in Linux yet, but no UED support. So no, you can't add it in Linux. But once you  have a modified texture package, it works in Linux as well.
Dots was working on a mutator for that and  I want to talk with DieHard later to maybe implement it into the URP.
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2008 at 4:37am by Smirftsch »  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #6 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 1:52am
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Pray for Epics to make UE GPL like Quake, then anybody could bring quake engine ports features to UE.

However from what I've seen in quake community, coders focus on openGL alone, nobody cares about map format or system memory management.
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #7 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 9:29pm
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It's not Epic style to do that. They will keep U1 non-oss (OSS - Open Source Software) while they can distribute it in other packages, like Unreal Anthology.
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #8 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 12:43am
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haha speaking of realtime shadows and quake, it reminded me or lordhavoc's darkplaces engine for quake, which has amazing real-time shadow effects.  You can see the outline of anything, including enemies and your player moving around on the wall.
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #9 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 3:17pm
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Since we're on the subject of shadows, Are there already any plans for what kind of technique is possibly going to be implented in the future?

is it going to be the (shitty, needs to die!) projector/texture shadow method like in ut2004?
or is it going to be the far more sophisticated stencil method (creative's shadow patch for example)?
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #10 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 7:45pm
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Smirftsch is pretty much my hero for even considering these things for Unreal 98. Smiley

The cool thing about fancy texture mapping techniques (bump mapping, parallax mapping, and relief mapping) is that once you have the rendering infrastructure written (shaders operating with access to the tangent space matrix and the appropriate normal and/or depth texture maps), it doesn't take much more shader code to implement the more advanced techniques over the basic ones.

Turboman. wrote on Apr 2nd, 2008 at 3:17pm:
Since we're on the subject of shadows, Are there already any plans for what kind of technique is possibly going to be implented in the future?

is it going to be the (crappy, needs to die!) projector/texture shadow method like in ut2004?
or is it going to be the far more sophisticated stencil method (creative's shadow patch for example)?


Technically speaking, stencil shadows (shadow volumes) are beginning to become the way of the past, since they don't scale very well with geometric complexity (not an issue for Unreal, granted), only geometry can cast shadows, and it's difficult to implement soft shadows with them (there is the penumbra wedges method, but...).

I'm not sure exactly what methods UT2004 uses (from what I remember, the Unreal engine 2.0 uses several types of shadows), but shadow maps are looking like the way of the future.  One cool thing about them is that anything that can be rendered can cast shadows (i.e. particles, masked textures, etc.).  In the past, aliasing artifacts (blockiness mainly) made these pretty ugly, but there are lots of new ways being developed to reduce the aliasing and get accurate shadows...parallel split shadow maps (and variants) are probably the best method: http://appsrv.cse.cuhk.edu.hk/~fzhang/pssm_project/, http://appsrv.cse.cuhk.edu.hk/~fzhang/pssm_vrcia/
There are also several emerging high-quality soft shadowing algorithms:


Here's a cool comparison of various newer techniques:  http://developer.download.nvidia.com/presentations/2008/GDC/GDC08_SoftShadowMapp...
I also know that variance shadows maps have been combined with parallel split shadow maps to produce quite nice soft shadows in large environments (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=975976). ; It's probably possible to combine some other algorithms, as well.  There are a lot of other things I'm planning on fooling around with in graphics, but once I get a more complete understanding of PSSM and the backprojection algorithm, I'm curious to figure out if those two are compatible as well.

Some of the soft shadow algorithms (particularly backprojection...eek) are quite expensive and impractical for older hardware (or maybe even current hardware), but that's what's nice about having an Unreal.ini with configurable options Smiley

I have no idea what the Unreal engine codebase looks like (or what the current renderer code looks like), but if all things are equal, shadow maps will probably be the best bet for their extensibility.
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #11 - Apr 3rd, 2008 at 1:40am
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UT2k4 doesn't rely on any shader. On the other hand UT3 has full support for Shader 3.0 and HDRR.

I believe that Crysis is heavy because all shadows and textures are at very high resolution, making any high end video card suffer because there is too much detail to render. With so many multiple texture layers, effects, HDRR, filtering this and that, plus all in a dynamic world... No wonder why GPUs got so many bits, trillions of operations per second, dozens and dozens of units for this and that.
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #12 - May 12th, 2009 at 11:24am
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Actually, there is some kind of fake-bump-mapping that one of the guys posted here. I cant seem to find the link, can anyone do a re-post?
  
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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #13 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 8:23am
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Wastelander0101 wrote on May 12th, 2009 at 11:24am:
Actually, there is some kind of fake-bump-mapping that one of the guys posted here. I cant seem to find the link, can anyone do a re-post?


Its not fake, it true bump.
http://boris-vorontsov.narod.ru/download_en.htm - there is render for DeusEx, working with Unreal, UT,TO/etc. too(in TO you may get ban for using it online, in UT - not).
ENB Series working with dx9 render only.

Also there is OpenGL render, heavy, not finished and I not see any updates for it: http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1235632308/60#73
  

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Re: Bump mapping support?
Reply #14 - Jun 17th, 2009 at 1:43pm
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Do we need bumpmapping ("fake" details) when we can have textures of 4096x4096 or even bigger ("real" details)?
  
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