Can you give me a...

[WARP-10]

I was reading this thread and wanted to comment.

SoS Unreal
http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/ ... 1264276200

Lock this one too but please leave it since it is very important.

The past couple years I have had two projects and one friendship to fail because the one doing their part in the project and the friend knew at some point through conversation that I had a copy of a certain game they didn't have or had lost at some point, then asked me to either mail/email/post them a bootleg copy of the game.

I declined and they disappeared. I explained to them how easy it is to get out of production games by using popular online sites like eBay or Amazon or Yahoo and yard sales and second hand stores as the latter two is where I have obtained my collection.

No one is perfect since we have all had our losses due to our own actions but overall, I have lost more friends, business contacts and jobs for my firm denial to do something illegal when I was asked than I ever have of messing up an acquaintance due to any of my own foibles.

That is the world we live in and even after all of that I still say that if you know something is wrong or right according to what you believe in or how you were raised you should stick to your guns so to speak.

Even more so in our modern social and political climate because much research shows that a lot of people are being sucked into a mechanism that pays them to be really low level spies in every day life along with aspects of the criminal justice system entrapping people more than ever.

[Matrix224]

Well put. Well put indeed.

[Jâçkrâßßit]

I do wonder why games such as Deus Ex go for around $40-$50 bucks off amazon.  Seems quite ridiculous really.  I've been wanting to play Deus Ex after all these years and I'm simply not willing to dish out that much cash for that game.  I could get it off D2D or Steam, but a hard-copy is a hard-copy.  I also wanted to buy System Shock 2, but the prices for that game are even more ridiculous.  If they tone down the prices a bit more on amazon (10-20 $), I'm sure less people would pirate the games.

[Smirftsch]

yeah but not being able to afford something is no excuse for stealing it except maybe it would be essential for life.
In this case it's probably more that people are not willing to afford it, which again means they consider the product not worth the money- but that makes the idea of stealing it instead even more condemnable.

[Leo T_C_K]

yeah but not being able to afford something is no excuse for stealing it except maybe it would be essential for life.
In this case it's probably more that people are not willing to afford it, which again means they consider the product not worth the money- but that makes the idea of stealing it instead even more condemnable.

That's not true at all. Might be the case for majority, but those who live really poor life have usually more burned CDs etc. I admit I don't have all my games bought legally, some I got simply from friends etc, I don't see nothing wrong with sharing them, I even lend original CD to my friend as well few times. So I wouldn't be so harsh about it. Of course it is easy to say for people who have enough money for living and few, or much more left so they can spend it for games and other stuff.

So, yes, I am partially supporting pirates, besides some say that if you really like the game you should buy it instead. And I did with few games, which I had first "pirated" or lend.

I don't count sharing as stealing at all, these two terms should not be confused. I mean you can share even your clothes, give old clothes to someone etc. Is that stealing too? Sheesh. Of course here you can make a copy for your own, but that's your own use and it is advantage of technology, therefore it is NOT stealing.

So I absolutelly disagree. And in before someone calls me a filthy pirate or something, had that happen few times online.
All at once, this is another social cliche bullshit, if you are blind to see it, well too bad then. This is just a matter of opinion and this now majority opinion was spread by corporate assholes who don't know what to do with money, so don't forget that.

I remember getting angry at Valve for ripping me off (I bought Gearbox's Half life blue shift first, for a cheap price), but I wanted to have more, so after trying half life from a lend CD from friend, which was not original CD btw and I have lend him my original blue shift CD, but then I had bought Half life generation in around 2003-4 and guess what, it had blue shift again and overpriced, but that didn't matter, well the whole package was really ridiculously overpriced, but I had it anyway, still it didn't include real manuals unlike blue shift and the CDs were in poor packages and the manuals were only in pdf version, besides some promotional material, yes it was 4 CDs, but really overpriced, but still I was not really complaining, I ws happy...the real shock came when Valve decided to put these missionpacks from Gearbox for free to download on Steam for users who own Half Life, that got me really angry, especially in 2005 when they put blue shift in and mangled it, until a mod fixed it) and I am not buying any game from them anymore as well.

[GreatEmerald]

I'd say that there's no real harm done if you get something illegally but you buy it afterwards. The thing is, that way you can actually get a good view of what you're paying for. Demos reveal much about that, yes, but not everything. Trials are a lot better, but they have to be written with common sense, for example, AudioSurf trial gives you only 4 tracks to play, and it counts even those that you choose for visualisations, before it expires, so the average play time of that trial is around 12 minutes.
I really like trials like those of WoTgreal or TuneUp Utilities. Once they expire, you have to wait longer and longer until you actually can use them again, but if you really want to, then you can.

Also, in some rare cases piracy is good for expressing lack of support. For example, Heroes of Might and Magic creators - 3DO and New World Computing - are bankrupt, and the franchise was bought by Ubisoft. What they released as "sequels" were just horrible in every aspect. So why would I pay Ubisoft for a game they didn't even move a finger to improve, and continue creating horrible games? I'd rather just donate to the actual creators of the game.

But in other cases, yeap, you should buy what you use, since otherwise creators simply won't have any money to create more and better games, and their statistics will show less consumers than there really are. In fact, the same stands for donations, if you really like something, even if it's free, you should donate, since that's what keeps the developers working

[Smirftsch]

"Sharing" could be even legal in most countries when you don't have a copy of it on your PC at the same time.
But I don't change my opinion about that. There is more than enough free and Opensource software.
Also nobody needs to steal a game even if he not having much money. Most of my games I bought as low-budget for 2-5€, I just needed to wait a little longer that's all.
So maybe just impatience is the reason to steal?

[Leo T_C_K]

That's again a matter of opinion and also...nobody really gets to what it is to be poor on money....but meh.

It has nothing to do with impatience as well.

I mean someone is buying a new game each month, or at least each year have like five games. And still he claims he is poor on money...

And also, if you buy it off Ebay and it is some really old title, do you think the money will go for example to all the level designers? No hardly it will....and very few percentuage of it will receive the company that created it at best.
And someone just won't get to buy it off Ebay or won't go through the hassle.
Again, to me, this is not a stealing, period.

[KillerSkaarj]

I mostly borrow some of my games from my friend and my brother. It's starting to become difficult because Valve is such a moneygrubbing and greedy company that we're not allowed to borrow games that run only by forcing you to install the virus known as Steam. I shouldn't have to be forced to install a goddamn program that hogs my resources and makes startup take f*cking forever. It's also funny because they included no way to uninstall it. Like I said, a virus.

And the best part is, if the CD key is already in their "database," you can't install it, period. Okay, I'll just go out and search for a brand new copy, since we won't be able to buy it off of Ebay. If you buy the game, and you don't like it, tough luck, it's yours for life.

But that's off topic. I have a habit of doing that. I blame my ADHD and OCD.

So yeah, I only buy my games if the game is a new release, or, if it's an oldschool game, I download it, play it for a bit, then I buy it off the Virtual Console (I have done that with Super Mario World and Super Metroid, both since bought on the VC. I've downloaded Kirby Super Star, but I might be getting Kirby Super Star Ultra, and once Star Fox comes out on VC, that's gone too). Otherwise, I borrow it. Downloading a trial takes too frickin' long.

I recently borrowed the two FEAR games from my friend. One of them has the perfectly fine "enter a cd-key at startup." It's slightly annoying to do, but it's nowhere near as bad as Steam, which the second game comes with. I didn't install it at all because I know for a goddamn fact it won't work.

These days, I don't ask my parents to buy me games. I save up to buy them myself. As a result, I rarely ever have the money for the games I want. You really think I'm going to be able to go out with tons of money and buy every single game I've ever wanted to play? Hell no! Not even with a job. I'll only do that with my favorite franchises (I own almost every single Metroid game released), but not for a franchise I haven't played before (Like F.E.A.R., which I have beaten).

I will rarely (as in once in a blue moon) pirate a recent game. I have only done that with UT and UT2k4 (though I borrowed the latter from my brother so I can install that instead), and that's only because the goddamn Unreal Anthology disc became corrupted. There were practically no major scratches either. I kept it in its case and took good care of it. If a company is gonna sell me software on a cheaply made medium, like hell I'm re-buying it!! I might hunt down the original UT disk in the near future though. Just to let you know I'm considering it.

[Leo T_C_K]

It is always better to have the original box and game, even for collections reasons. But often when it is still in shop you don't have money to do so.....then EBay is quite complicated for people in countries with no Euro and USD, so basically you're screwed. And you may know that your situation might not become better anytime soon also (who would wait more than six years for an old game to buy, etc?). So sharing it or downloading more than ten years old game is really not stealing, it is a claim by these lawyers. Because if you were to download it and crack it off some site, for example off the developers one or off the shop, that would be stealing then....but if some user uploads it or makes torrent and shares it with people, how is that stealing? It hardly is.
You need to logically think about it to realize it is not stealing.

[GreatEmerald]

I will rarely (as in once in a blue moon) pirate a recent game. I have only done that with UT and UT2k4 (though I borrowed the latter from my brother so I can install that instead), and that's only because the goddamn Unreal Anthology disc became corrupted. There were practically no major scratches either. I kept it in its case and took good care of it. If a company is gonna sell me software on a cheaply made medium, like hell I'm re-buying it!! I might hunt down the original UT disk in the near future though. Just to let you know I'm considering it.

I have UAnth DVD, and I have like 2 backups of it just to be safe. It's always better to back up your favourite games

Because if you were to download it and crack it off some site, for example off the developers one or off the shop, that would be stealing then....but if some user uploads it or makes torrent and shares it with people, how is that stealing? It hardly is.

AFAIK in some countries it's legal to download pirated software, as long as you don't spread it (AKA personal usage), so it's the opposite of what you just said.

[Leo T_C_K]

Yeah I know that.....hence why it is all bullshit to me.

[[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ]

I'm all for "piracy" as long as it remains free. What I'm against is if you get something for free then sell it for money. I have 2 piles of pirated CDs and DVDs, most of them are games - old games mostly, and each pile is about 1,5 m tall. And it's normal, why would you pay for something that:
1. won't give any (or very little) profit to the one(s) who should get the profit
2. is just a bunch of 0s and 1s

Free software for the win.
Open source for the double win.

Capitalism sucks, anyway.

[Pitbull]

Brilliant!!! This is just what Old Unreal needs, to let others see how our members beleive that pirating software is ok. What the hell is wrong with you people? Oh wait let's also share the fact that some of you do it all the time. How daft can you be?

[Jâçkrâßßit]

Brilliant!!! This is just what Old Unreal needs, to let others see how our members beleive that pirating software is ok. What the hell is wrong with you people? Oh wait let's also share the fact that some of you do it all the time. How daft can you be?

QFT, you shouldn't go around telling people you pirate software.  This will only spread the disease so to speak.  My original complaint about software (particularly classic games that are over 10 years old) were simply the prices.  I will eventually buy a hard-copy of Deus Ex unlike most people who would just pirate it and never buy it.  Fortunately, most games (like Unreal) cost nowhere near $40 US dollars and are very affordable online.  It really does come down to some particular cases that games become to expensive for the overall experience of playing it SP by yourself.  Yes, I believe proper networking support should definitely add some money to the overall price of a game.  Not much, but some. What I don't believe in is having to pay a monthly fee to be able to play a game you bought online.

[Pitbull]

QFT? QUOTED FOR TRUTH? Quantum field theory?  Don't you mean QED?  quod erat demonstrandum   Latin for those who do not know. I guess "quoted for truth" does fit though.  ;)

[Raven]

I'm always against piracy, nothing more to add - you can't afford it - don't buy it. Anyway I'm using Steam for a very long time and it's one of the best platform for distributing games. 40$ for DeusEx is very high price but here: is for 9,99eur.

[Jâçkrâßßit]

Nope, I always have bought hard copies of games (including console platform games).  The only steam games I ever owned were from my brothers wallet (he let me play through his account).  The deals can be nice, but I want something I can put on a shelf and call my own. Valve games that you buy in hard-copy (L4D, ect.) don't need to run with Steam apparently which is good enough for me.

[GreatEmerald]

I like "soft copies" more, because you're never in a risk of losing it unless the provider's side goes down, which is not very likely to happen any time soon, while hard copies are vulnerable to a number of factos that can easily render them useless very fast.
Though I don't really like Steam since it adds to load time. Perfect places to get games for me are sites like GOG and Direct2Drive.

[[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ]

Riveting tale, chap. You'll all admit pirating something at least once.

Oh and I agree about steam being a virus lol

I'm always against piracy, nothing more to add - you can't afford it - don't buy it. Anyway I'm using Steam for a very long time and it's one of the best platform for distributing games. 40$ for DeusEx is very high price but here: is for 9,99eur.

What if I have 0 bux and wanna buy something that costs 0 bux? lol just messin bro

you shouldn't go around telling people you pirate software.  This will only spread the disease so to speak.  My original complaint about software (particularly classic games that are over 10 years old) were simply the prices.  I will eventually buy a hard-copy of Deus Ex unlike most people who would just pirate it and never buy it.  Fortunately, most games (like Unreal) cost nowhere near $40 US dollars and are very affordable online.  It really does come down to some particular cases that games become to expensive for the overall experience of playing it SP by yourself.  Yes, I believe proper networking support should definitely add some money to the overall price of a game.  Not much, but some.  What I don't believe in is having to pay a monthly fee to be able to play a game you bought online.

Except I don't really see how it's a 'disease', I agree with above.

Brilliant!!! This is just what Old Unreal needs, to let others see how our members beleive that pirating software is ok. What the hell is wrong with you people? Oh wait let's also share the fact that some of you do it all the time. How daft can you be?

You can't prove that I'm not just bragging. I just said that and I believe there is freedom of speech on teh intarwebz, although many consider using freedom of speech the same as abusing the aforementioned right.

Oh, and if you consider me daft, then I'm the most daft person you'll ever meet.

Actually yeah, I'm pretty daft.

Not gonna post stuff like that anymore cause some people are obviously too sensitive and I don't want to piss anyone off.

[Hellkeeper]

I bought my copy of Deus Ex 1€.

I've never used steam because I really don't like the feeling of buying something I don't physically own. I trust myself more than a company( even valve) that could go down with an economic problem anytime or just shut down a service for X reasons.

Same for piracy : I don't like playing a game I don't physically own. Sorry [§[ch340]] [ch356]h[ch283]x[ch272]â[ch341]k[ch347]î[ch273][ch283][ch341], but I cannot think of any game I have pirated and I don't feel like I'm going to start anytime soon. I genuinely feel like it is morally "wrong", and even though I'm not an empowered defender of the free market, prices usually go down with the quality of a game : They all hit the shelves at 60/70€ but prices come back to normal after maybe a couple of months. That's not too long for me to wait.


So yeah, the only real valuable argument for people to pirate a game is money, namely the lack of. And it's not a real argument either. What do I do if I want a game but don't have the money ? Well DUH, you don't buy it, because guess what ? You don't have the money. I personnally would like to get my driver license, but I don't have the money for that, and that doesn't mean I'm getting a fake one.

Oh and let's not walk on the "i pirate to test before buying" field : it's all hypocrisy and we all know it. People who act this way tend to think surprisingly often that each and every game they tried this way sucked, so there's now ay they're going to pay for their legal copy.
And as this comes from me, I don't swim everyday in giant pools full of 500€ notes I also use to wipe my bottom. Right now I own exactly 0€ a month and it's been this way for a very very long time.

[§[ch340]] [ch356]h[ch283]x[ch272]â[ch341]k[ch347]î[ch273][ch283][ch341] : Freedom of speech on the internet is limited by the laws of the country you are when writing. In my country, you're liable for anything you publish online, the same way as if you had done it in a newspaper.

[Leo T_C_K]

That's a matter of opinion and I see nothing wrong in the thread. In fact it is wrong that some people force against this. Let this sink down into a matter of opinion, but don't force your opinions against those who don't beleive so. Because it is all social bullshit and stupid laws made by corporate assholes. Some people even have trouble getting their name on the credits list of the game and do you think they received some money in the end if they are not credited? nah why? Let erase the fact that they ever worked on the game.

This business is more tough than it seems and more corrupted. Why would I support some corporate assholes?
As I said...if you can buy it buy it, it is better to own a real copy of the game. But if you really can't and it is so old that it is ridiculous...and you have friend who has it or someone who shares it? What's wrong with it? Nothing nothing at all.

Yes my opinion might be bit problematic and revolutionary, but that's about it.
And I am not promoting anything. I have done no harm at all. Prove me otherwise. I haven't posted any links to pirated software or stuff. I am just expressing myself.

[Leo T_C_K]

OK....I will maybe actually make video in the future about this. Because this topic deserves to be discussed. Lemme tell you a story.
As a child there were these vietnamese shops around, some of them were selling NES games. I was buying them, with my mother etc. It was everywhere, spread out like mad. It was in the 90s. Now actually that is wrong. But nobody cared back then and I had no idea they were illegal, although they were relatively cheap, but some wanted to rip others off by presenting fake games and claiming they are originals. But the lady claiming this wasn't even vietnamese, it was a czech one. So they weren't that "evil" after all anyway, the asians.
Of course...you have to account this metality in the countries of post communist countries. Nowadays it is hardly present here as well, you won't find these vietnamese guys selling games anymore, at least I haven't for a while.
But....I didn't know it was wrong to share burned CDs or anything like that, or to "pirate" games as well. I have never sold any pirated game for money, but I have sometimes received burned copies of music and games CDs as a gift. Yeah you hear right, as a gift. And it is still sometimes a common practice.
But of course because I OWN THAT GIFTED BURNED CDs, I am automatically a filthy pirate!
Seriously....nobody is going to care after all and if it is more than 10 years old...what's the deal? Apart from having nice original CD, manual and stuff, if you can't have it, there is nothing wrong absolutelly if you have it burned from a friend or even downloaded.
In fact I can say that the pirates are promoting the game and making it more popular. Why do you think the games in the old days were so common and popular? Guess....doesn't take a genius.

I have had many friends who you could call pirates, in fact I knew some who never bought a game. But they were not evil people...they just had own philosophy or weren't aware of bullshit laws. Get it? Thx.

[Smirftsch]

I let this topic open just to discuss it. People pirate software, that's an open secret.
In any case I won't support it and Hellkeeper pretty much expressed my thoughts about it too.
So discuss this as long you want , maybe some people change their mind "for the good"

[Jâçkrâßßit]

well, since I posted last I found a great deal on Thief 2 and Deus Ex bundled in one package for less than 20$ !!! I bought it on sight.