Footsteps.uax

[[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ]

What's about this package? Sounds seem lower quality than in other packages and I've never seen this package in use.

[Hellkeeper]

New package of footsteps to use with the footstep sounds prpreties of textures. Some sounds are low quality, but a lot of them are very nice (grass, metal etc... especially).

[GreatEmerald]

I made a version of that package that utilises Unreal II footstep sounds. A lot better IMO. There are also mods that make you use those sounds.

[Smirftsch]

bleh. I made this package completely alone with the help of shivaxi only, he contributed a few. Its for use with 227's feature for footstepsounds. I asked a lot for help...
For footsteps only the quality should be sufficient in most cases.
Anyway, it needs to be built in first- in textures, in maps, maybe with a mod, dots made a first mutator iirc, but its not really in use yet.
Still it can be of course modified for 227g, but I avoided to use footstep sounds out of other games by purpose, better to stay with non-commercial stuff for this semi-official patch.

[GreatEmerald]

Epic's EULA says it's entirely OK and even encourages porting content from one game to another in the limits of Unreal series games.

[Hellkeeper]

Epic's EULA says it's entirely OK and even encourages porting content from one game to another in the limits of Unreal series games.

Not in every case. I'm not sure it's really authorised or only "tolerated". I remember UT2004 stuffs not being allowed to be ported to UT2003 (though it's a special and specific case).

[GreatEmerald]

Quote from UT2004 EULA:

We just LOVE the idea of you using and distributing content or script from any prior Epic Games, Unreal franchise game in Unreal Tournament 2004 Mod. Therefore we grant you a license to use content from any prior Epic Games Unreal franchise game in your Unreal Tournament 2004 Mods. For the sake of clarity you will not gain any ownership whatsoever in any Epic content or script nor can you use any Epic content outside the scope of the rights granted here. Any attempt to do so will bring about the wrath of our attorneys.

Can't find other EULAs yet, but I'm pretty sure it applies to Unreal as well.

EDIT: Yea, the same is in UT3 EULA, so I guess it works with other games too:

We just LOVE the idea of you using and distributing content or script from any prior Unreal branded game developed by Epic in your Mod. Therefore we grant you a license to use content from any prior Epic Games Unreal[ch65533] game in your Mods. For the sake of clarity Epic retains all copyrights and you will not gain any ownership whatsoever in any Epic content or script nor can you use any Epic content or script outside the scope of the rights granted here. Any attempt to do so will bring about the wrath of our attorneys.

[Bane]

That says prior. According to that, Unreal content in 2k4 is fine, but 2k4 content in unreal is not.

[GreatEmerald]

Maybe. The point is that it seems that Epic aren't really consistent with their own EULA... I've read a few topics, where people said that U2 content in UT2003 wasn't allowed, while EULA says that it's perfectly fine... Guess they're not sure themselves - if you asked Capps, he'd say something, CliffyB would say something else, Sweeney would say something more else... It's rather hard to say, and overall the EULA, like I've said, looks like spaghetti, it's very unclear what they meant. Maybe prior was put in there just so people wouldn't copy UT2004 stuff to UT2004 and call their own, as there was nothing newer released... Or maybe that means that content can only be ported upwards. But that doesn't make much sense either.

[Smirftsch]

exactly because of that - its unclear - and I really want to avoid any trouble - I chose soundfiles without copyright, made my own and cut them myself...

[SkaarjSlayer]

I always thought anything was completely fine so long as you didn't attempt to make anything in the hopes of making profit.

I mean, who made that McDonalds DM map? Has the "wrath" of McDonalds' attorneys fallen on him? I don't think they have, lol

Besides, it seems pointless to make importing new Unreal stuff into old Unreal games illegal, because there isn't nearly as much people who play the original Unreal as they do UT or UT2k4.

I understand how you should make sure just in case, but I'm just saying it's highly unlikely there's anything wrong. Just my opinion..

EDIT: Also it's worth noting that THEY gave us the capability to do such things.

[GreatEmerald]

Indeed, logically I don't see how UT2 -> U1 is wrong if U1 -> UT2 is good. What gives? They will get more money if they sell more U1 copies too. You should ask Epic about that.

Is there any EULA for Unreal anyway?

[Smirftsch]

of course there is, check your help directory-
anyway, lets say it that way - I really have to take care about a lot of things already and I don't need more stuff to worry about.
Its usually taking a lot of time until I get at least the most simple answers from Epic and I don't want to bother them more than necessary to clean things like that up- and not sure if I would get answers about that at all.
The most work is done already, there are lot of good footstepsounds already included, some maybe only need some "polish".
Also not sure if these UT3 would fit at all, since the footstep system I built in is based on 4 different steps which are played in random order.

[Bane]

Indeed, logically I don't see how UT2 -> U1 is wrong if U1 -> UT2 is good.

Porting game1 content to game2 encourages sales of game2. Porting game2 content to game1 encourages sales of game1. Guess which they'd rather sell copies of.

They will get more money if they sell more U1 copies too. You should ask Epic about that.

Not likely. They'll only get money if the game is still in print. If you buy a copy of U1 off eBay, Epic gets no money. Buying a used copy from a store shouldn't give them money either. Unless it's different when not dealing with imports, they don't directly get any money when you buy a new copy either; it just encourages the stores to buy more copies.


Also, just because you aren't making any money off of someone else's IP doesn't mean it's legal. There's Fair Use, but not everything falls under that. I'm no lawyer so I can't say what falls under fair use. However, if that McDonalds map is for U1, I'm sure that it hasn't provoked attourneys because no one pays attention to what a U1 mapper/coder is doing. Same with Mario content in unreal, and whatever else gets ripped/copied from other games.

[[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ]

Guys lol, just look around, every game is a rip of something else. Especially RPGs rip each other mercilessly. Fallout has almost same concept as TES4 although I think they switched the engine or w/e, look at Spell Force, my bro played that and said it's the same as NWN2. And of course, mother nature I always say "LOLOMG LOOK NYLEVE" when I go to forest.

Btw, look at the title. Soooo, I can use these footstep sounds? I've done it in one map already, I'll do it in others too, then. I have a texture package that uses footstep sounds.

[Smirftsch]

Guys lol, just look around, every game is a rip of something else. Especially RPGs rip each other mercilessly. Fallout has almost same concept as TES4 although I think they switched the engine or w/e, look at Spell Force, my bro played that and said it's the same as NWN2. And of course, mother nature I always say "LOLOMG LOOK NYLEVE" when I go to forest.

Maybe maybe, but Bane is absolutely right- and in the end only one question counts- IF it really would catch someone's attention, would YOU like to be the one to be responsible? I don't

Btw, look at the title. Soooo, I can use these footstep sounds? I've done it in one map already, I'll do it in others too, then. I have a texture package that uses footstep sounds.

Of course, please use them, that's why I made this package

[GreatEmerald]

Darksider has the point. Might and Magic 1 is generally a Dungeons and Dragons clone.

[Bane]

Guys lol, just look around, every game is a rip of something else.

There's a big difference between using similar game mechanics and using sounds, music, textures, meshes, etc from another source. Here's a tip; one of them is definitely illegal without permission.

I'd like to draw your attention back to the EULA that was posted.

We just LOVE the idea of you using and distributing content or script from any prior Epic Games, Unreal franchise game in Unreal Tournament 2004 Mod. Therefore we grant you a license to use content from any prior Epic Games Unreal franchise game in your Unreal Tournament 2004 Mods. For the sake of clarity you will not gain any ownership whatsoever in any Epic content or script nor can you use any Epic content outside the scope of the rights granted here. Any attempt to do so will bring about the wrath of our attorneys.

See that bit at the end in bold? Remember how I pointed out that this does NOT say that you are allowed to use content from newer games in older games?

I always say "LOLOMG LOOK NYLEVE" when I go to forest.

Nyleve is a forest?

[GreatEmerald]

Nyleve is a forest?

I there anything closer to a forest in Unreal?

[DieHard SCWS]

This is for Smirftsch:


I actually forgot that, but now i saw this post, i still have a very cool sound of someone walking in the snow. And personally i am always fascinated with Unreal snow maps. I dunno, they always kinda look way cool , and this sound is very usable for walking on snow, that is, if it can be added to a new group.


If you want to use it, here is the original wave file: snowwalk2.zip


But would be cool if you could add it


Backthan i used that same sound for my XmasDeck16 map.
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[Bane]

Nyleve is a forest?

I there anything closer to a forest in Unreal?

The closest thing to a metropolitan city in unreal would probably be Skytown. Does being in such a city make you think of Skytown?

[[§Ŕ] ŤhěxĐâŕkśîđěŕ]

It's mostly because of that waterfall. Except on that place irl there are more waterfalls, not just one. xD

[Jâçkrâßßit]

First off, I would like to apologize for making a separate topic on this issue when this topic clearly existed.  I don't know why I didn't refer to this one in the first place............

now for my response to that thread:

ah no problem with that report, completely valid in my eyes and for the footsteps any help is appreciated to make it a better package.
I wanted to add it into the patch because this way its more easy to implement into new maps. Most people won't start digging for such packages but if already included it makes it way more easy for them.

But I want to refer to this other topic also to discuss this.

There are 2 problems that exist with this logic, unfortunately.

#1
Since the Footsteps.uax package has been included within 227, changing the sound files for the better within the package would cause version conflicts with future versions of 227.  One guy who is still using 227f will conflict with another guy who is using 227g (you cannot prevent this problem in the end!).

#2
Having quantity of sounds over quality of sounds available for the mapper is generally a very bad idea.  If I was a mapper (I am), and I decided to use the 227 footstep features to find out what I did (non overlapping sounds with clicks and static), I would most likely close UnrealED immediately wondering what is wrong with my 227 version and sound drivers.  These sounds (if used by semi-professional mappers) are used and this fact is found out... I can guarantee you will have a loss in numbers when it comes to content creation.  People will simply not trust the new sound implemented in 227 (which is a CRUCIAL factor when map making).

I'm going to have to recommend that in the state Footsteps.uax is currently in, to remove that package from 227f.  In fact, I think the smartest thing to do at this point *hint* *hint* would be to start a Project Section on the Old Unreal wiki page regarding foot-step sounds.  This way, people can make their own packages and share them on the wiki though download links... this way, the creator will be the one with the copyright risks and not the 227 developers and patch!!! it may be possible that there is no need for a standard "Foostep.uax"package, and smaller user created packages could simply be made instead.

If you think about it logically, having smaller FootStep packages would be an ideal thing for a map pack that utilizes them.  They could simply include the particular footstep sound packages (for example: metal, grass, and dirt) that that mappack uses.  This way, other footstep packages will not be needed which will result in maybe a maximum 2MB download for each smaller package.

[Smirftsch]

#1
thats no real problem since any of the 227 versions can't be made compatible against each other, because otherwise it would lose compatibility against 224/225/UGold servers
#2
when I made it wasn't about quantity, I just wanted to provide a footstep sound for the most common textures. And since 227 is the only version supporting it I still see don't see a problem to include it in the patch so that any mapper can directly use it and no one has to download it.

However I see no reason why people shouldn't trust it? Of course these sounds are far from being perfect YET but once fixed/corrected/improved (no idea, one of those ) and used? Many of the sounds are quite ok already?
I mean, they are included since a long time now and nearly no one used them or noticed problems, now it seems that they found some attention and I maybe get the now the help needed to make it a great package.

To make it a wiki project- very very welcome, I've seen the lot of work you put into the wiki already, good job!

I really still think 227's final version should have its own footsteps package.
In the past I had to learn that people are lazy and if not every package is provided this great feature maybe just stays unused.
I have to admit that this is a good argument about the legal responsibility but if using non copyrighted sounds there is no problem to deliver it with 227.
Also mappers can of course create there own packages and include it into their map-packs & mods.

[Jâçkrâßßit]

ah.. I have made a new discovery regarding the footstep sounds in the editor.  The final function PlaySound() has an optional boolean bNoOverride.  I see that in UnrealIPlayer, bNoOverride is set to false for each footstep that is generated.  The problem is.. its simply not working!  I have tested with longer sound files as the footsteps and sure enough, the sound are cutting each other off and not playing properly like they should!  If this issue is resolved, then the current footstep sounds could possibly generate without those clicking noises and static...

I'm currently trying to redefine the PlayFootStep() function.... no luck so far as now the sounds refuse to play at all!