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I've noticed that I cannot use more then one layer of detail textures, mo matter where I set DetailMax to. I use the option DetailMax=4 which should give 4 layers of detail textures but it is not giving any more than the standard one layer. I use Unreal 227f with Direct3D9 but the problem also exists in OpenGL.
I have a GeForce 8800GTX on Windows Vista Business X64 SP2
NVidia ForceWare 185.85 with the following options:
I have no idea where multiple detail textures exist in a single place, can you show me where?
Yes, it is most easily seen on lamps. For example, in Entry. With detail textures enabled, you should see a bar pattern on the lamps. With multiple layers of Detail Textures (Like with DetailMax=4) you get more bars when you are close.
An example pic in NyLeve:
This is how it looks with a single layer of detail textures:
This is how is SHOULD look with multiple layers of detail textures:
(Image from my own archive)
Last edited by Hyper on Thu May 28, 2009 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
detailmax > 1, vertexprogram and fragmentprogram true are required for it to function, apparently. Turning off vertexprogram or fragmentprogram with detailmax at 2 or above results in the first picture, using a 6600GT with newest nvidia drivers
Last edited by []KAOS[]Casey on Thu May 28, 2009 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
huh....I just tried this...and for me it only worked when VertexProgram was False. I didn't even see a Fragment Program either. Of course with VertexProgram off, I get that stupid glitchy bug when you minimize the game and bring it up again and colors are everywhere on the screen.
huh....I just tried this...and for me it only worked when VertexProgram was False. I didn't even see a Fragment Program either. Of course with VertexProgram off, I get that stupid glitchy bug when you minimize the game and bring it up again and colors are everywhere on the screen.
SinglePassDetail limits to 1 layer, with the exception of the later fragment program paths. The current fragment program detail texture paths can do one or two layers for both single pass and multiple pass. The fragment programs depend on vertex programs, so need to have both UseVertexProgram and UseFragmentProgram enabled to use them, in addition to hardware support.
Maximum 2 layers if using fragment programs. Maximum 1 layer if using single pass but without fragment programs. Maximum 3 layers otherwise (except was limited to 2 in earlier versions).
The additional detail texture layers fade in based on a continually decreasing starting distance. By the time it gets to the 3rd layer, this distance is fairly short. In most cases, even when right up against a wall, the 3rd layer is only starting to fade in. Usually the only difference I can detect between 2 and 3 layer is slightly darker but not much else with 3 when the 3rd layer just starting to fade in. The detail texture distance calculations don't take any zoom into account, though if they did, the 3rd layer could end up significant if very close to the surface and then also zoomed in a lot.
Since not using smaller detail texture only triangles in any of the single pass detail texture modes, or fragment program branches in 2 layer fragment program multipass, performance of these modes can end up significantly better or worse across various scenes compared to the standard multipass with 1 additional layer per pass mode. All of the advanced modes should tend to help with reducing CPU load, but overall GPU load can vary significantly, especially when dealing with low poly count / large triangles. With simple single pass detail, avoid a second pass on some pixels, but add additional detail texture processing on others where the detail texture ends up changing nothing.
Things would be much simpler if set pixel shader 3.0 as a new baseline for fragment programs and dropped vertex program only mode. Of course would mean dropping support for a few generations of graphics hardware, but also the ones with the most difficult performance quirks to deal with in these areas. Nice to use vertex programs to help offload the CPU a little bit, but can sometimes run into trouble with high overhead state changes on some of the earlier hardware. Detail textures without single pass causes lots of vertex program switches. But if use single pass detail to avoid most these, instead pick up the other considerations mentioned in the above paragraph.
There may be quality differences with the single pass detail texture modes in some cases. Detail textures on bright colored surfaces with OneXBlending disabled can show differences with significant chromatic distortion in some cases. Possible it could happen in the screenshots above, but not the most interesting detail texture to see the difference for this. For UT, colored lights in the lower corridor going into each base in CTF-Coret are a good example. With the 2X blend, can get some things bright enough to exceed the range of the frame buffer, and then lose color information with individual color channel clamping when store. With single pass, can have the detail texture scale some things darker but while still have more range available. Similar effect could happen with not colored, but much less noticeable when it only results in darker surface as opposed to both darker and with color changes.
Other single pass detail possible quality difference is a potential very faint line at the edge of the detail texture range on certain hardware. ATI R300, and maybe R400 for this one. There was definitely a hardware blend issue on ATI R300 hardware with lots of multipass blending showing up a little too dark. Suspect they had a hardware optimization / bug where certain equalities with operations involving 0.0 and/or 1.0 and some other number didn't necessarily always come out exact. Not sure if it was specifically this or not, but for certain algorithms it's important that things like 1.0 * X = X, exactly and across all X. With single pass detail textures using fixed function, or fragment program without branching, could get a potential off by 1 applied evenly across an entire base texture, which could be very difficult to ever notice. But with multipass, an off by 1 in the range [0-255] by the time get to 8-bit per channel frame buffer and across a line that always follows the detail texture range could be much easier to spot, even if only a very faint line.
Hyper.nl, based on that long response from SMP Dev, did you change any of your original settings from the first post in this thread and why? Should this be any different with OpenGL and the S3TC textures with fastest C2D (non-extreme) CPU and GTX 280?
Also, I didn't think UseFragmentProgram worked in Unreal (at least with OpenGL), so I don't even have it in my INI file. What I do have though related to this thread is:
Yes, I am experimenting with the DetailMax=3 now via the 'old' rendering path. It hardly improves anything tho. The difference between DetailMax=2 and DetailMax=3 is even barely noticable when facing a wall.
You may want to try the settings I posted at the Wiki. It uses double detail textures now and uses the modern rendering path.
