OldUnreal (Engine)

Oh, if it can be bypassed all together than that would even be better, i just though it [glow=yellow,2,300]does[/glow] need certain files. But if thats not the case, than yeah leave it behind all together lol.
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Its funny.. At first I really thought backward compatibility would definitly be needed to keep the community alive. After reading the advantages with just having the server/client 227 and no other patches needed (for ANYTHING) sounds like a really great idea! I wish I could change my vote

It would be really good imo if we somehow got the UProtect source code.  It might not be needed right this moment, but if 227 is offering better and advanced cheat protection that would be one of the main tools to edit/configure for the new patch..

its somewhat funny to see that people some to the same conclusion once they thought the whole stuff over. But i'm very happy that you understood the problem and that some of you agree with me now.

Anyway, it seems this forum doesn't allow to change the votes, didnt find something, the only thing i could do would be to reset the poll- which would appear not fair to those who don't want to vote again (i guess they would think this as an kind of manipulation).... - don't worry, the vote isn't over yet.

Yes, the uprotect source could safe time i think, but with having the unreal sources it isnt essential, it is way more easy for us to make something similar with the sources. Even more impressive what BarendB made without them....

ye i guess i would allso change my vote from compatible to non compat aslong as no issues with maps

Though i voted compatabillity, my main worry is only about new players really, and yes you did misunderstood a fair bunch of my examples Smirftsch . But if problems can be resolved, than i am highly in favor of a from scratch non compatible one.

As far as the the poll, i simply would do a revote in time and leave this poll as it is for comparising, but i still think you should release a compatible (227) pre patch so people can extensivelly test the whole thing and try for themselves.


Make a new poll in time, everyone is willing to do a revote, i am sure of that.


As for BarendB, i [glow=yellow,2,300]did[/glow] track him down, know his full name and knows where he hangs around, long story but contacting him will be difficult lol, but it can be done , so if theres interest i will go contact him and ask for the UProtect sourcecode.


On another note i am worried about the UProtect kinda protection, i already had an e-mail exchange with Zombie9246 about that, my worry is that the protection that is planned will block any possiblity for me to go test S3TC textures online freely as i can do now, effectivelly slowing down my work with 90 - 95% of what i could do...............


That too, is major worry for me :-/
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The way UProtect works is based solely on UScript code, and it works off of a completly different concept of detection than 227 will use.

It might be useful for an update cheat protection for OLD versions but not for 227.

just a short note again;
still not sure about uprotect, as shambler said, its a whole different story, on the other hand, some of his work might be of interest and it would offer to update cheatprotection for older versions- and even if not i'd hate to see such a work lost. I leave the decission to you Diehard.

For the S3TC textures, be sure we find a way for those, since the URP is somewhat maybe the most important thing for Unreal aside 227.

If any such anti-cheat implementation is done in 227+ then game servers should contact a master verification database on a central trusted server. In this way game servers can always be up to date on trusted files and packages so that players aren't kicked. That definitely helps reduce a lot of the latent actions of administrators thar do not copy the latest file checksums.

Wouldn't this solve the S3TC, custom console, and other clientside mod problems? If every checksum isn't stored on one central trusted server then have a couple trusted servers which are contacted weekly in a random ordered choice. Trusted people from the community could manage what is allowed and what is not for the checksum database. Only clientside mods which are deemed globaly useful and safe to the community would be permitted. To reduce traffic overhead when the 'initial' DAT is received from the trusted server it could be compressed using a format designed for the best text compression. After a game server has their first DAT then all later weekly updates would only append new checksums to it, and remove any bad/old checksums entries based on the trusted server's commands.

Maybe I'm already describing what has been done before an an Unreal-based game, but Unreal 1 is the only FPS I play online currently so I wouldn't know.


-Zombie

Why would this "Master verification database" be needed? Wouldn't it be much simpler to just let the server admins control which client-side mods are allowed on their servers, and also give them a pre-set of acceptable mods, i.e. all the S3TC texture hashes?

If you have been following along with the S3TC project you'd know that problems arise with the traditional anti-cheat methods. I've asked Diehard if there would ever be a point where final UTX package versions would be released so that I could add the signatures for JCoopZ and he said it may never happen. So basicaly there will be several package versions floating around which all need to be verified and new versions that could come whenever new work is done. You cannot expect every administrator in Unreal to come here to browse this forum weekly/monthly to grab an updated list either. Plus, from my view over the years I've come to see a lot of administrators DM/Coop which don't want to jump through hoops just to insure 'safe' clients can join their server.


-Zombie

oh, so the S3TC team is continually making updates to the textures? I didn't know that, I assumed they were all just copied from the UT CD2 and that was the end of it. I don't follow the project really. I think I have them installed, but I don't see any difference, so I'm either too blind to see or too dumb to install it properly.

I have some doubts about a 'master database' which gets queried by the game. My experience is that master databases may get down sooner or later, leaving the program that uses the database useless. If there will be a master database, make sure it is optional, and it must also be possible to manually make your own whitelist as server admin.

Of course it could be optional with traditional methods as an alternative or backup. I'm just giving out a brief description of the idea to get others thinking in different directions to solve issues. Overall, it doesn't have to be limited only to what I said. Although if it did work similar to a custom master server then anybody could make their own verification server, and if administrators trusted the maintainer then they would add it to their query list. Adminstrators unwilling to maintain their own whitelist would have it easy.


-Zombie

these ideas are absolutely necessary for the cheatprotection, but this poll is not the right place for it, Zombie maybe you can write your thoughts in the development forum part ? Would be nice to have the essential ideas and things in there

-- changed --

please move a feature request (in the 227 development section) or url announcement (can be placed in the general forums, but not in this poll) into an other topic. Should be not in here.

well thing is, that after this one, the different Unreal versions Unreal and UnrealGold will be compatible against each other. We will get rid of the incompatibility Legend created - and this is something i'd really say is compulsory.

Fantastic!

I don't know what else to suggest other than to perhaps fix the direct 3d - vertex fog deletes mesh sheets (Warlod wings, Skaarj loks, etc) when in a zone rendering fog and the reverb not being able to function at all after several days of the game being installed.

well I think I am correct here, but in the new patch D3D + S3TC capabilities will be added which just plain out sounds really kickass

Is there any way to add on to the server function (?) that when a player first connects that the server sends a command to run obj garbage on the clientside?  :o  LOL, as I write this it sounds like a virus, lol.  

I wish we could just eliminate the code-addon "version mismatches" all together.  We need to come to grips (a message to our pro-coders) that new players are dummies (or how about just non-coders, lmao), and they will not know to do an advanced function like "obj garbage".  Sure the running of it is easy, but the determination of what do do when the server bounces you at the point of being brand new to a game... it will be about as easy as reading Chinese and at about the 4th time on different servers this might just be enough to send a player to another "non-version mismatch issueless game"...

I'm just delving into "possibilities", but if it's not possible, then for this area then I guess there is no possibilites.

The viewpoint of the "new" player is "ahhh, a new game, I wonder if it's fun online!"  At about the 4th or 5th "non-connection" to servers, about half will go on to other games where the hassle of actually playing online is not a puzzle to figure out.

Remember, a minimum of half of game players are "impulse" players, with which they want near instant gratification.

If you want to get rid of the "ghost" bug doing that, I believe Smirftsch already nailed it.

If you want to get rid of the "ghost" bug doing that, I believe Smirftsch already nailed it.

i could imagine "nailing" other more funny "things", but indeed, i have

227 wil contain an updated OpenGL renderer, a new D3D8 renderer, latest version of OpenAL for Sound (if FMOD will be included i don't know yet because of licence questions), and and and...

and support for new audio formats like (.mp3, .ogg)


o wait.. you didn't say that :-?

thought that idear does sound very apealing if posible would be great for importin music in maps without huge 11 megs files

please add a larger crosshairs.
at 1600x1200 everything completly maxed its almost invisible

for me unrealgold compatibility is more important than backward compatibility.

hund_schraube? its been a while i read this name. Indeed a larger crosshair might be something to think about.

Speaking of larger cross hairs...do u think u could put an option in this new version to resize how big or small u want your HUD display to be no matter what the resolution is? Like UT2k4