OldUnreal (Engine)

I've been playing in newbies playground alot, and my technique for not getting hit is the old in game error where there is a natural time delay from the transition to crouch to standing upright. Over the years I have practiced it heavily and mastered to exploit it to where I can move about a map crouched but at the normal walk speed. Keeps people from hearing your footsteps

Well, I was approached my OldSparky the other days and he called it a hack/script/cheat and that 227 would fix this and if I didn't stop doing it he would kick me from the server. Now I have not done anything in my ini, so naturally the anti-cheat mechanism will not pick it up. He said he's gonna put up a thread on Newbies about it, and since you guys have more authority and respect toward him than I do, I would very much appreciate a response to this thread so I can forward it over there.

It is very similar to the error with the forcefeild where you jump on top of it, and when it disappears it makes it seem as though you are still in the air. Now this in my view is going a little to far.

I do know that there is a script to where you can double bind things like crouch,slide and wave all at the same time, but I am not using this, nor do I have the knowledge to do so.

So my question is, is this cheating and how do you guys feel about it?

Thanks,

Masterman

Did the programmers intend Crouch sliding? No. It is an exploit, and "unclean" play. IMHO.
I would be very happy for it to dissappear in 227.

New players are put off by seeing this sort of thing, and if Unreal is not to die, then it needs new players.

Well, let me ask you this; did the programmers intend for mods like air control etc.?

Some floor textures in certain maps will alow you to slide crouched without repetively hitting the crouch key. When your are on an icy surface the same effect occurs but you can accelate to infinity if you had a large enough map.

Part of bettering your gameplay in unreal is strategy, and for me this expolit is one of them...I guess everyone just has their opinions on "fair play" but you won't find that anymore, except in CoOp of course.

Accelerating to infinity, what the HELL was Epic thinking? A simple fix of course, I've fixed this, the people who made the ThieveryUT mod for Unreal Tournament fixed the issue to.

But I don't know if Smirftsch will include my walk fixes, it will prevent people on 0 friction surfaces from sliding around like that.


Crouch sliding is a exploit and it should be fixed. Those who think otherwise, well I don't care any less.


- Fenix

Well, might as well fix the forcefield trick too...

It's just that some servers people crouch slide all the time, while at others, they have never seen it or don't approve of it...

So basically it's classified as a "Moral cheat" lol...sorry, but that's the way I play...And until it's fixed I'll continue to use it..

I use automatic aiming; Aka a aimbot, but it's almost always out of sync with the server. I play co-op with it anyways.

What is this "forcefield trick" you speak of? My guess is someone hanging in the air after the thing vanishes simply by holding down their walk\crouch button.


- Fenix

Aimbots and crouch-sliding in Unreal are very comparable to performance enhancing drugs in sports, making it hard for not so great players (such as myself ) to keep up with the rest of the people using these tricks. In my opinion, it should be up to the server's administrator(s) whether or not these should be allowed and should maintain the right to ban users who dont respect the rules. After all, most of us are guests on these servers, which are paid for and maintained by these hard-working individuals.

Aimbots can never help with aim sometimes, it's due to the fact that the server the client is on has a different tickrate than the client itself has, think of a server operating at 20 FPS while the client is at 60 FPS, server has to replicate moves to the client,etc. It's the #1 reason why the aimbot I coded myself is out of sync with player movements.

In short, I'm one inaccurate dumbass with it on anyways.

SLIDING around friction 0 zones is solved completely with my fixed "HandleWalking" function, it does not make use of "bIsWalking" because that's what starts the glitch in the first place, instead, it sets it to false; BUT it cuts GroundSpeed ,etc by a fraction to mimic the same walking speed, therefore it produces the same walk as Unreal does, minus the bugs.

And for that matter it solves people not falling when they crouch or hold walk while on a decoration, it also allows people to move around on decorations while walking\crouching.

The only server I use my aimbot on is Cheese's, MewTwo's, and my own server; But again, it's almost ENTIRELY out of sync with player movements.


- Fenix

Well, let me ask you this; did the programmers intend for mods like air control etc.?

They intended for people to make mutators to modify the game slightly, and if they didn't want aircontrol to be modified, they wouldn't have made it a variable like that. UT also has aircontrol on a server configured variable that you can change at any time..

Well this thread is going totally off-topic, but anyways....I still think expoiting a game engine error through the dexterity of your hands is not cheating..

aimbots and "crouch-sliding" are two INCREDIBLY different things. Comparing them like that is nothing short of ridiculous.

crouch sliding is a bug, simply because it is extremely unlikely that the designers would deliberately add in animation glitches. It is a bug/"Unexpected feature". The server owner has can declare it against the rules, although doing that is just idiotic because it isn't something you can easily enforce; you'd have to just watch the player and make sure he isn't doing it. Personally, I'd say that it's a minor bug that shouldn't be fixed simply because it isn't worth the bother, as you said it took you years to master the practice.

Fun story related to this; the BFG9000 from doom had a long charge time and a sound that let everyone know you were charging it (this was back in the day when you couldn't see your opponent's weapon, so the BFG looks like the fist). However, if you ran against a wall and pressed 'Use', your character would make a grunt noise, stopping the BFG charging noise due to the limitations of the engine. Done right, you could get a perfectly silent BFG fire, which is almost always lethal. Is this a bug? of course. But the developers actually knew about it and used it on each other when they played deathmatch.

Well, What I actually said to Masterman, was that he should change his name to Slider, and that I have received a lot of complaints from players about him and others sliding.  I never did say I was gonna ban him.  In fact what I said was he doesn't play enough on the server for it to be that big of a problem.  I think in the interest of fair play, any exploits used in the game should be known by all players. . If we discover exploits, we constantly expose them to players on the server.  People using exploits on a server often cause the new players or even old players to think there are cheats being used.  I prefer that exploits when discovered be exposed to all.  This particular exploit of sliding, causes the player to be located different than it appears.  An experienced player can compensate for this by guessing and shooting to the side.  This seems a bit unfair to me.  But its really not that big of a deal but it does cause some raised eyebrows by even Older experienced players.  It just doesnt fit the atmosphere well on newbies.  Masterman is a good player and clean he just moves around like he has Roller skates on and he doesnt need that exploit to give a good account of himself.  I guess it has to do about being the winner, which to me is not that important.  At 64 Years Old if i win one its nothing short of a miriacle anyway.  So I dont consider this a major issue, its sorta like a fly buzzing around your ear.

No one here has said this is the way you do this,, seems like thats the point to me.  All should know by now how this is done.

To say that its fair because its on the keyboard is not a reason to use it.  Tab God is on the keyboard to and thats not fair either.

Posted: 13 Jan 2008 08:28 am    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During the discussion with Masterman on the server I did accuse him of using a keybind if my memory serves me correctly. He then explained that he does it on the key board. I also told him I understood that 227 mod would fix this exploit and he would no longer be able to do this. That is why I raised this issue this time in the first place.


_________________
This is probably the oldest unreal player on line

Posted: 13 Jan 2008 08:28 am    Post subject:      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

During the discussion with Masterman on the server I did accuse him of using a keybind if my memory serves me correctly. He then explained that he does it on the key board. I also told him I understood that 227 mod would fix this exploit and he would no longer be able to do this. That is why I raised this issue this time in the first place.


_________________
This is probably the oldest unreal player on line

Yes, you did say that Glen, and I perfectly understand where you were coming from, as it is hard to tell.

For example, I saw a certain someone come in once and sliding right past me waving and dodging.  This is is double/triple script bind and UTeam and other anti-cheat software will kick these players.  Also the time dilation script and the dodge-click time.

There is also another bind for the rifle that a certain someone uses that allow certain keys to change your field of vision (1/4 zoom, 1/2, full etc.), now this I don't agree with at all, but hey what are you gonna do about it.

The reason I play like this Sparky is just out of pure habit.  I'm used to playing on TNN, IGN NXS (which I just recently joined) and others where you have to play aggressively, and when I come into Newbies, it's just out of pure habit that I crouch slide.  I have cut down on it though and will try my best to keep it that way..

Fun story related to this; the BFG9000 from doom had a long charge time and a sound that let everyone know you were charging it (this was back in the day when you couldn't see your opponent's weapon, so the BFG looks like the fist). However, if you ran against a wall and pressed 'Use', your character would make a grunt noise, stopping the BFG charging noise due to the limitations of the engine. Done right, you could get a perfectly silent BFG fire, which is almost always lethal. Is this a bug? of course. But the developers actually knew about it and used it on each other when they played deathmatch.

Huh, I've been playing zDoom (actually GZDoom which is the most recent zDoom sourceport) and never noticed that happening with the BFG9000, of course the people who coded zDoom obviously fixed the sound problems. I might try this in the original DOOM.exe with DosBOX.

Still a sound exploit like that can exist in Unreal if someone codes a gametype, weapon, playerpawn ,etc improperly.

- Fenix

I absolutelly dissagree with these binds and stuff, someone even recently told me that he used for a long time a zoom hack which no anticheat would detect and 227 gets rid of that problem already.

The only thing I would not consider as cheat is maybe the dodgeclicktime as it is a normally configurable varaible at new Unreal engine games too I think.

Actually I could win with my skills at newbies playground at few matches in a row I remember (until I became tired or some better player joined), nothing like that I can do in other servers, just because everywhere else players play unfair mainly, I became an admin at GamePark Cz servers and made some updates to servers etc. Updated to latest Uteamfix and added 225 patch to servers and rearranged maps and added many "new" maps, but also teaching players to play a bit more fair was a need and I bit managed to keep it as close as the Newbies playground servers, because I think these servers are best. Note: To play in these serevrs you have to be registered in the site portal, these serevrs are not avaiable in serevr lists.

I absolutelly dissagree with these binds and stuff, someone even recently told me that he used for a long time a zoom hack which no anticheat would detect and 227 gets rid of that problem already.

I found out that zoom bind myself, never told anyone anyway, it's pretty obscure to say the least.. the variables don't seem to be used at all for actual zooming too.

Ah yea now I remember. I think you once said it here too and before you told me at coop, right?

Yeah. that was it. all of those variables are client-side settable {theoretically I could still use a custom console, but anti cheat would catch it}

To play in these serevrs you have to be registered in the site portal, these serevrs are not avaiable in serevr lists.

You might want to advertise your servers anyway. UTF allows you to use gamepasswords and PERSONALIZED passwords per user. So if you wanted, you could give every player an individualized account and thus make sure only people you know play on it, but keep the server in the master server list without fear of unwanted people joining, since every account is individualized and not a general "game password" people can give out. By checking the logs you can always see who logged in and actually played... Of course your server title should advertise where to register but we're getting way off topic ;-)

No, I am not owner of these servers, they are owned by the gamepark cz. I am only a "helper" admin, but I've done most of the work on Unreal servers since I became admin there at August 2007.

http://www.gamepark.cz/

It is all done through a bit different system than usually, basically it is done via a gamepark client the joining to a game, basically the server starts when player enters that certain room, normally is turned off.

While we are wondering off-topic. I think it's important to remember: Server admin pays for the server, he gets to make the rules.

If I were to establish a server and say 'no one is allowed to use the dante skin', though completely asinine, is my prerogative.