xCoop 1.5

[Hyper]

But there are annoying basterds like PackLeader who will change their IP and rejoin to your server, and keep on doing that till you stop banning him.

This is no longer the issue with modern banning tools like the one in JCoopZ. But I have to admit that I do not have any relevant experience since I haven't banned anyone for years. (I rather enforce security and good gameplay with game tools rather than banning everyone, not to mention crashing players.)

[Turboman.]

I usually avoid these kinds of threads, but here goes my first contribution to these kinds of discussions:

As an average unreal player that has been playing the game for years, i have slowly become very aware of these things being put into mods lately, and this has made me very cautious upon entering most servers and participating in the online community as of late.

I can say i fully support hyper in his statement, i don't even need to go into detail why this is morally and ethically wrong in every way imaginable!

[mentalhunter]

But there are annoying basterds like PackLeader who will change their IP and rejoin to your server, and keep on doing that till you stop banning him.

This is no longer the issue with modern banning tools like the one in JCoopZ. But I have to admit that I do not have any relevant experience since I haven't banned anyone for years. (I rather enforce security and good gameplay with game tools rather than banning everyone, not to mention crashing players.)

Yea, I have to agree with you on that.

[Leo T_C_K]

I can say i fully support hyper in his statement, i don't even need to go into detail why this is morally and ethically wrong in every way imaginable!

I agree and you didn't believe me at start or something when I told you something like that is possible, you know back then at Zora's servers.

[Pcube]

I think you're missing the point... This is a function. It is neither inherently good nor bad.

Code: Select all

Function Whatever()
{
// ZOMG IM EVIL!!!
}

is no different from

Function GoodFunction()
{
// worship me for i am the height of ethical standards
}

... so if anyone/thing is to criticize, it's the idiot who decides to make a stupid choice.

This really is interesting and I think it's helping me gain a clearer understanding of who holds what "ethical values," but I stand firm in my notion that this function is neither good nor bad; it's a function. If someone wants to use it to make Player A change their name to something less offensive, ok. If that same admin decides to be irresponsible and crash Player A, ok. Either way, it's the fault of the person, not the script, so stop labelling this function as an inherent method or catalyst for abuse It's near-sighted and laughable when you think about it from an objective stance... Oh look, I have a mouse with a cord next to me. I can use it to strangle this other guy next to me, then it will be Logitech's fault (wait, what?) Oh, nevermind...

Feel free to warn everyone about "just how bad of a guy" I am, but to be completely honest, there are tons of other mods that have the exact same "capability" to be used abusively that noone will ever know of, be it because the source is removed or the mod is simply inconspicuous. I know that your policies in your server are more protective, often targeted against potential risks, but I believe that everything in life is a risk.. maybe I should lock myself in a room all day so I won't get offended, harmed, or (god forbid) forced to reinstall Unreal.  ;D I'm not commenting on this topic anymore.

And yes, I take full responsibility for what happened that day. As the admin, I failed to ensure a safe environment for my clients, and the admin in question has been completely restricted from ever getting admin again. In fact, the only admins at my server are now myself and the co-author of this gametype. Huh, I just solved the problem without blaming the mod that was used.

[Jâçkrâßßit]

amen brother.

[Bane]

I think you're missing the point... This is a function. It is neither inherently good nor bad.

False analogy. While it is true that power itself is neutral, remember that computers will always and only do exactly what they are told to do. UScript can safely be seen as neutral, but the functions created are made by people for a specific purpose. To extend the analogy, UScript itself is a spear (power), an "evil" function would be a spear thrown at someone. The "evil" function and the thrown spear both already have the intent of the creator to do whatever it is they are going to do.

[Jâçkrâßßit]

To extend the analogy, UScript itself is a spear (power), an "evil" function would be a spear thrown at someone. The "evil" function and the thrown spear both already have the intent of the creator to do whatever it is they are going to do.

that is so totally wrong.  So if you force a player to reconnect to your server for whatever reason, that is evil?

[Bane]

To extend the analogy, UScript itself is a spear (power), an "evil" function would be a spear thrown at someone. The "evil" function and the thrown spear both already have the intent of the creator to do whatever it is they are going to do.

that is so totally wrong.  So if you force a player to reconnect to your server for whatever reason, that is evil?

Yes, of course. Just like how every possible use of any sort of power is evil.

Did you even read my post?

UScript is power. It can be used to ruin someone's copy of unreal.
A spear is power. It can be used to kill someone.

Throwing a spear at someone with the intention of killing them is a use of the power of the spear that is considered evil (ignoring the fact that killing is not always evil, etc, but typically it's not a good thing to kill someone else).
Writing a function to ruin someone's unreal is similar to throwing the spear at them; you are taking a neutral power and using it for an "evil" purpose.

And then the good side.

UScript is power. It can be used to add fun to unreal.
A spear is power. It can be used to defend your family from hostile animals or whatever.

Defending your family is an application of the power used for a purpose that is considered "good" (ignore the fact that defending using a spear probably involves killing or wounding another living thing)
Using UScript to create new gametypes is an application of the power used for a purpose that is considered good.

See my point yet?

[SkaarjSlayer]

From what I just read, in about 200 words you said absolutely nothing..

[[]KAOS[]Casey]

what he's saying is along the lines of forcecommand can be used for good, I once set someone's purgecachedays to 0 after they couldnt figure out how to use the command line on tab, but it can also be used for bad.. clearing out inis with garbage for example..

the function itself is neutral untill used.

[Bane]

No, that's what PCube is saying. I'm saying that the intent of the function is built into the function so it can be slated towards "good" or "evil". something like Forcecommand is definitely more "evil" than something like an antibot's package detector. Forcecommand can be used for malicious purposes, and it probably will be.

By the way, it's possible to make it so a function can't be used for malicious purposes. It isn't even hard. Here's some code from my antibot; it's a function to scan a player's binds for specific binds such as "huntheads" or "activate" or anything like that. Of course, it could be used to steal passwords, and since it checks every single bind it'd find them quickly if they weren't bound to an exec or alias.

Code: Select all

simulated final function string FindBind(string inp)
{
local int I, K, P, S;
local string key, ths;

local string result1, result2, temp;
local bool bDone;

for (I=1; I

[Leo T_C_K]

Maybe because he wants to get it used for malicious purposes, that is why he doesn't add checks?
Actually, I've heard from many players that PCube himself used to steal info from their inis, or writing log into core.dll. I cannot say that for sure as I haven't seen it doing it himself, but too many people are reporting that. He didn't do that to me I think, but one of his admins did it once or twice to me.

And it can be used for more than runing a copy of unreal, but also ruining your PC!