OldUnreal (Engine)

Don't know ya Zeke,is Packleader still the clan leader?If so anyone that ever ran a server(old school,not new players)they will tell you the same thing.
As for the whole dm/co-op thing,it's like this,a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.End of my opinion and posts on the subject as I am right.........
Peace and hairgrease,over and out,
Minus

The "klingon" clan has no doubt created a very tarnished reputation for themselves. Years ago I played under a different name and they also tried to crash my server alot. I never once provoked this. The firewall quickly solved this as we didn't have nepthy's back then. In my eyes though the past reputation has proven beyond a doubt never to forget their past. Klingon himself would purposely hide under lifts so people couldn't finish a map during COOP play. There are alot of people who got sick of all this crap and left the game for good all because of these antics. Alot of people lost site of Old Unreal ethics and rules of fair play since days gone by. It seems also that alot of newcomers never even heard of the ethics at all. I won't state my personal opinion of "Klingon" but I won't dispute what Minus and Bane have said either. For anyone who really cares about this old game read the following links.


[url=http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2qd/YaBB.pl?num=1151248525]Rant of the Clanner[/url]

[url=http://www.oldunreal.com/decency.html]Unreal Netiquette[/url]


And to quote a wise individual.

And one with thing i still have. If anyone is able to make me angry i'll lose the game, can't play anymore...

Co-op and DM are 2 completely different things. I think these co-op server trying to protect themself's from simple addons that cannot possibly harm the server in any way are a complete waste... Why try to limit ones imagniation? If someone wants an console addon that makes the canvas have 100 gadgets, they should be entitled to do that regardless in a coop game.

And if an admin does not want the players to have 100 gadgets, they're entitled to block it. I don't see what your point is. If you want free reign then play offline or start your own server. Any server's rules is up to the person running it and no one else. The idea of right and wrong isn't even involved here since it's more preference than anything.


As for the main reason I'm responding to this post, it's just to say that back when I ran a DM server it got attacked multiple times by PackLeader. I don't think it's fair to denounce the entire clan for his actions simply because I've never met or known any other members, but as for PackLeader - I don't see how anyone can possibly hope to successfully defend his actions as being anything other than unnecessary, destructive and annoying.

I've been playing this game since '99 (played UT first). I've been in Klingon for probably 4 or 5 years (maybe more)...Packleader isn't a bad guy if your on his good side. No he is not the leader anymore he stepped down...still unclear why, but still in the clan. Dante is the leader now. I won't dismiss the DoS attacks either...I've done them. But they tend to aim towards dumbasses like Jackson who tends to ban you for going afk for a minute or just not talking. I can name one attack right off the bat that Nephthys can't defend against...unless it had Super AI. It involves files (hint). You can't forget Father Tim either. If you have ever seen his website you'll see that he's notorious amongst many games and certain progams (ex. Teamspeak) for creating "Test" programs, DoS programs, etc. And I remember his short stay in Unreal, you said one thing bad about him he would attack you, or regardless try to attack you anyways, but he really was just a loner in my opinion.

So.... because people get banned for useless reasons..... you decide to attack the entire server. And if succesful, you essentially ban EVERYONE from it.

I think you're going to have to explain that one again.



I can crash servers. I accidently found a method a while ago. I could use it to crash people's servers (and I used to.... um. I was a dumb kid). But even if people get on my bad side I don't go around crashing their server. I don't force people to act nice to me under the threat that I'll crash their server if they don't kiss my ass, which from what you just said Packleader is doing.

I've been playing this game since '99 (played UT first).  I've been in Klingon for probably 4 or 5 years (maybe more)...Packleader isn't a bad guy if your on his good side.  No he is not the leader anymore he stepped down...still unclear why, but still in the clan.  Dante is the leader now.  I won't dismiss the DoS attacks either...I've done them.  But they tend to aim towards dumbasses like Jackson who tends to ban you for going afk for a minute or just not talking.  I can name one attack right off the bat that Nephthys can't defend against...unless it had Super AI.  It involves files (hint).  You can't forget Father Tim either.  If you have ever seen his website you'll see that he's notorious amongst many games and certain progams (ex. Teamspeak) for creating "Test" programs, DoS programs, etc.  And I remember his short stay in Unreal, you said one thing bad about him he would attack you, or regardless try to attack you anyways, but he really was just a loner in my opinion.

Lets see if  I can put this in perspective.

Not trying to offend you but being in Klingon IMO is nothing to be proud of. Just because someone is a "dumbass" is not a valid reason to harrass people. If this Jackson kicks you then don't play on his server. You openly admit to doing DOS attacks yourself. News flash, they are illegal as well as immoral. You may want to rethink posting this on a public forum. I honestly did not want to make another post on this topic but I feel obligated at this point. Unreal 1 has been and will always be about the ethics, respect and fairplay of the community. Do you people even know why Smirftsch does what he does for unreal? I'll tell you now. He doesn't like playing alone. So for the record I say this now. I speak from the heart, if you don't like what I say don't blame Smirftsch or the other admins here. Old Unreal is a good resource. My opinions are my own. The crew here are my friends and everyone that helps out here has the ethics I speak of. Whether you people realize this or not you are killing unreal. Apparently noone read the links I posted previously. I keep reading the defense of these radars etc. The point of COOP is to work together thru a level. I fail to see how a radar accomidates this. Any admin already knows, being an admin myself. The point is this we all know our servers can be crashed. What purpose does this serve? I'm sure someone will still argue this but the truth is, respect is earned, not given or even forced upon. I am very tempted to lock this topic but I won't. I'm sure there are some wise opinions yet to come. People should put their talents to full use and stop wasting them. Honestly if all this crap persists I will lose this game. I sincerely hope that everyone gets it. Unreal has been an enlightening experience for me and it would be ashame to lose that. Everyone here should truly learn the ethics of the unreal community. Doing so will only bring friendship and one hell of a good time.

Well I was prepared to post something as well, but Pitbull, Smartball, Zombie, Minus and even Bane already said what has to be said. If Jackrabbit and Zeke haven't gotten the point by now, they never will.

Oh and: hi Minus, good to see you

So.... because people get banned for useless reasons..... you decide to attack the entire server. And if succesful, you essentially ban EVERYONE from it.

I think you're going to have to explain that one again.



I can crash servers. I accidently found a method a while ago. I could use it to crash people's servers (and I used to.... um. I was a dumb kid). But even if people get on my bad side I don't go around crashing their server. I don't force people to act nice to me under the threat that I'll crash their server if they don't kiss my ass, which from what you just said Packleader is doing.

Ok, you obviously have no idea how bad Jackson is.  He bans anyone, kicks anyone without reason...for going afk, for not talking, for absolutely no reason.  He cache rips mods without giving out credit (976 would know).  There's only one person in the game he doesn't hate I forgot who the hell (it's his mom or something, ask Pcube) it was but he has the tendacy to password his server when you try connecting.  He claims that once he joins a server the mod becomes public (it's mine now).  I don't know him as well as others but he's just a pest. He tends to abuse admin to, constantly killing you, renaming you, you don't even have to know the guy for him to do this or say anything.  

News flash on DoS attacks:  You'd be suprised how many people not in Klingon have made consoles with a built in DoS feature (many of them we all know).

Wrong!  I see and understand all of these points and opinions.  With that said, I still feel co-op should be a place for people to share peer-to-peer relationships while dealing with those people that are on your "Good List" and people that are on your "Bad List" (or other known as $*!t List).  Just because someone eventually has the knowledge to find a simple security breach in the server, is NO reason to ban him for life from the server.  That is ridiculous expecially in a gametype where there is ABSOLUTLY NO COMPETITION.

I'm not going to stand here and insult Klingon like some of you clearly like to do.  Like Zeke said earlier, some of these guys are just loners and want attention.  Sure they are jerks, but that is no reason to put all the blame for people leaving the game on them.

I'm disgusted to hear others blaming others for this games decline in players.  Obviously, many people quit unreal because it is old technology.  Isnt this the REAL reason Smirftch set out to fix that with 227?  To possibly get people back?  or is it just because he wants to prevent players for the Klingon forever.  (which IMHO Klingon is aready 90% dead).




Sure, everyone wants a fun experience without cheating in games like Deathmatch.  But if you know someone is cheating:

1. ask others
2. check the log
3. report the problem
4. fix the problem

If this was done for each one of those "Klingon" breaches, then Klingon would work harder to find the next security breach (this cycle could make Unreal more secure than UT in the end).


Its a very healthy cycle and I honestly do feel if that Klingon put all this "hack" pressure on the Unreal community years ago, that they should get some of the thanks for exploiting these security risks.

Hackers can make a living as you should aready know.

I'm not going to stand here and insult Klingon like some of you clearly like to do. Like Zeke said earlier, some of these guys are just loners and want attention. Sure they are jerks, but that is no reason to put all the blame for people leaving the game on them.

I'm disgusted to hear others blaming others for this games decline in players.  Obviously, many people quit unreal because it is old technology.  Isnt this the REAL reason Smirftch set out to fix that with 227?  To possibly get people back?  or is it just because he wants to prevent players for the Klingon forever.  (which IMHO Klingon is aready 90% dead).

Yes, this is my viewpoint. I realize the nature of a DoS attack and it's seriousness...I didn't go around all of Unreal doing it like some people did but I have used them with reason. Jackrabbit is right, a lot of people left for "better graphics" or because "this game is old." However, I believe many new games just provide short single-player games with nothing much else to offer for multiplayer (Gears of War for Windows apparently has Co-op like Unreal 1 though). That's why some people come back to this game, and some forget about it leaving it to collect dust on a shelf. I believe 227 will bring in a lot of new people, especially with advertising. Klingon is 90% dead lol, we just got a new member after like 2 years. Bringing us to 4, at most 5 members (one guy comes back every now and then).

So.... because people get banned for useless reasons..... you decide to attack the entire server. And if succesful, you essentially ban EVERYONE from it.

I think you're going to have to explain that one again.



I can crash servers. I accidently found a method a while ago. I could use it to crash people's servers (and I used to.... um. I was a dumb kid). But even if people get on my bad side I don't go around crashing their server. I don't force people to act nice to me under the threat that I'll crash their server if they don't kiss my ass, which from what you just said Packleader is doing.

Ok, you obviously have no idea how bad Jackson is.  He bans anyone, kicks anyone without reason...for going afk, for not talking, for absolutely no reason.  He cache rips mods without giving out credit (976 would know).  There's only one person in the game he doesn't hate I forgot who the hell (it's his mom or something, ask Pcube) it was but he has the tendacy to password his server when you try connecting.  He claims that once he joins a server the mod becomes public (it's mine now).  I don't know him as well as others but he's just a pest.  He tends to abuse admin to, constantly killing you, renaming you, you don't even have to know the guy for him to do this or say anything.  

News flash on DoS attacks:  You'd be suprised how many people not in Klingon have made consoles with a built in DoS feature (many of them we all know).

Still not following you. At all. Is he hosting the ONLY server for coop or something? Is that why it's such a big deal if he bans you? And if he is, why are you trying to crash/disable it? If he bans you, DON'T GO IN THERE. It that really so hard to understand? What's with you people? I see ban dodgers all the time. WHY DO YOU TRY SO HARD TO GET SOMEPLACE YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT WANTED WHEN THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES????

For cache ripping, if he doesn't stop when asked, then people should delete the source code from their mods so they can only be distributed in their entirety. If he isn't modifying them and just using them then split the packages into a client package and server package and have only the client package be downloadable. That way they can't be cache ripped because only half the code is downloaded.
(easiest way to do this is to make an abstract class with some methods in the client package and subclass it in the server package)

Jackson is one of those "fake" unreal players that put himself up on an "ultimate throne" Only his clique are allowed in his server and he is the worst instigator on the face of the earth. Just take a look at news page on freewebs.com/unrealpcube.

Considering how he thinks that you guys are giving him permission to use your mods on his server, have you even once tried asking him not to?

Jack, I agree with you on 2 things:

1st, hackers are necessary to improve security, no doubt. But you don't need to attack servers and attack people in order to achieve that. I don't hate hackers, I hate hackers that put their knowledge to the detriment of others, and when I already know that about a person I will judge him/her with extreme prejudice whenever I encounter him/her.

2nd, I perfectly agree that a lot of people have left for better graphics or age of the game. No doubt about that either since I know a lot of these types myself. But to stand here and say people like Klingon haven't damaged the game or the community is just ridiculous. I've been anonymous on servers here and there, coop ones too. The amount of abuse you can receive for no reason would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad... times have changed? Well I wouldn't know since I stopped playing on random servers due to all the bullshit. Oh and if Shambler was here he could sing you a song about the crap going on in Inf but that's another story...

As for enhancing your hud in coop against AI that is ok IF AND ONLY IF the server admin approves! That would usually mean a mod installed that gives EVERY PLAYER these enhancements automatically and NOT JUST YOU! Competition or no competition (oh wait, you're getting POINTS in coop aren't you) a cheat remains a cheat... Zero tolerance, end of story.

@Cache ripping...
Oh hell yea, guess why some mods are obfuscated now. I wouldn't mind anyone looking at my code for learning purposes, or even for reuse if asked. I'm not gonna repeat what has been posted in

http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1189222741

already though... again all in good fun? No damage taken? Certainly not... the whole modding community suffers because authors obfuscating are then depriving the community of code to study and the exchange of knowledge... but what can you do :-/

Just one last note on Jackson. I have NOT gone back to his server since though he takes the opportunity to invite himself into any server that I might be in or Pcube, Jackrabbit, etc.

Ok, you obviously have no idea how bad Jackson is. He bans anyone, kicks anyone without reason...for going afk, for not talking, for absolutely no reason. He cache rips mods without giving out credit (976 would know). There's only one person in the game he doesn't hate I forgot who the hell (it's his mom or something, ask Pcube) it was but he has the tendacy to password his server when you try connecting. He claims that once he joins a server the mod becomes public (it's mine now). I don't know him as well as others but he's just a pest. He tends to abuse admin to, constantly killing you, renaming you, you don't even have to know the guy for him to do this or say anything.

News flash on DoS attacks: You'd be suprised how many people not in Klingon have made consoles with a built in DoS feature (many of them we all know).

There was a DeathMatch server I used to enjoy playing on, until the admin got angry at me for winning and started using the God and Fly command in-game. To solve my problem, I didn't crash his server. I simply never went back. I wonder what it is that makes you unable to see how completely ridiculous your post is.

With that said, I still feel co-op should be a place for people to share peer-to-peer relationships while dealing with those people that are on your "Good List" and people that are on your "Bad List" (or other known as $*!t List).

I still don't see your point. Do you think that how you feel has any impact on the way anyone else conducts their business? Unless you're running the server, your feelings are, inevitably, irrelevant.

Just because someone eventually has the knowledge to find a simple security breach in the server, is NO reason to ban him for life from the server. That is ridiculous expecially in a gametype where there is ABSOLUTLY NO COMPETITION.

Sounds great! I sometimes wish they'd rewrite the law so that theft of items under $3.50 results in a slap on the wrist, items from $3.50 to $50.00 results in a small fine, and items of $50.00+ results in possible jail time. Great logic. Especially since shoppers in a store don't compete - that makes your argument even more compelling! Law enforcement can learn a lot from you.

in-fighting amongst the community is killing this thread that IMHO was dead long ago...
please somebody be the hero and quit defending the actions of those who did the attack in the first place. IMHO A legitimate defensive posture could be assumed if the original 'hacker' made it clear to the admin of said server that there was a security issue.
and again IMHO It is clear that some more than others in the unreal community care about the game and the availability to play the game ONLINE with an ENJOYABLE experience but the idea of caring about each other as unreal players seems lost.
be a hero. drop it.
I don't wanna hear/chat/read about how you OR your buddy is proud about ruining my enjoyable experience when it comes to playing unreal because after all I am just here to frag.
and yes I read this topic from the beginning
l8r

its been stated b4, if the admin doesnt want u doing something on his server then dont. or run ur own. Server crashs with klingon clan, been there dealt with that. Agree with smartball on packleader. no idea why this is even a topic that is going on, lol. Its so laughable i had to come in and post. Defending someone who knowingly attempts to or does crash servers that are not their own? no reason to justify it. Dont play in the guys server, run ur own, ban him if u want so he cant follow u to bother u.

Holy...wow, didn't think this would be such a huge topic lol . I wish i started out in Unreal earlier than i did, i started with UT99 first, then i started playing Unreal in around 02' or 03'.

Hey NCMinus, was your name in Unreal IceMinus at one point?

@ Bane: I run xcoop 1.6 by Pcube

@ Bane:  I run xcoop 1.6 by Pcube

Why the hell doesn't it block ServerReStartGame()?

in-fighting amongst the community is killing this thread that IMHO was dead long ago...
please somebody be the hero and quit defending the actions of those who did the attack in the first place.  IMHO A legitimate defensive posture could be assumed if the original 'hacker' made it clear to the admin of said server that there was a security issue.
and again IMHO It is clear that some more than others in the unreal community care about the game and the availability to play the game ONLINE with an ENJOYABLE experience but the idea of caring about each other as unreal players seems lost.
be a hero. drop it.
I don't wanna hear/chat/read about how you OR your buddy is proud about ruining my enjoyable experience when it comes to playing unreal because after all I am just here to frag.
and yes I read this topic from the beginning
l8r

Agreed, should we lock it?

Uh. Yeah. So for the record, Dante didn't "hack" anything. In fact, LMAO he used MY console to exploit something in MY gametype, oh god the irony.. and this worthless discussion over trivial matters ensued. Oh well, I'm releasing a new version of the gametype as I type this. I vote to lock the thread; nothing productive seems to be coming from it.

while probly not productive nor positive, it has sparked a lot of interest and got peeps to post that normally just lurk :-)

yeah i noticed that lol...

@ Bane: No idea, it doesn't have a Bann function either lol...he sais thats wat Nepthys is for and i agree

Wow. I thought I was known for the long posts !! LoL. Some of the logic expressed about hacking (DOS attacks), and Packleader etc makes (to quote Glenn Beck) blood shoot out of my eyes. Let me really stretch the logic, and blow the examples right out of scale.

Let's see if I can understand all of this (using another example). You enter someone's house and they don't want you in there, so they show you the door. He's a real jerk about it and doesn't ask you politely to leave. He's even a bigger jerk, because he's rude and full of excrement (etc etc) in his own house. He farts and insults others, and so on.

But the person being kicked out is upset at "being rudely shown the door." And let's say they never do return to the jerk's house, they're still pissed off that the jerk was a big time jerk.

So what they do is nail every door and window shut. The jerk and nobody else can get into the jerk's house. They do harm to another's property, and use the reasoning that the jerk deserves it, which is suppose to justify the performance of a crime. Yes, a crime.

The jerk's "crime" was being a jerk, and rudely kicking a peep out of his house. The peep's crime is unlawfully harming the property of the jerk.

I've got some news for ya. The peep that boarded up the jerk's house would end up doing abit more jail time (paying fines etc) than the "assault" in kicking the peep out of his own home. In fact, in some countries, the jerk would get away with shooting the unwanted peep, even if his reasoning is "I don't like him in my house."

As for the comment about hackers being a benefit. Hmm. *grabs more tissues, sops up more blood spouting from eyes*

It's a good thing that I break into cars, because better car alarms are invented. Wow. I've been totally wrong about the actions of others (who actively break the law). If you don't like a law and think that it's wrong, then use your intelligence and fortitude to actively (and legally) having the law changed. Also, most of the "cyber crimminals" that do make a living doing their hacks are hired AFTER they get out of jail (or pay a substantial fine). Think about that. Anyways, they ARE tagged "crimminals."

And about Packleader. Let's see if I've got this one straight. *watch where you step, the blood is beginning to pool*

A peep harms others and their property over and over again, for several years. But as long as he doesn't harm a specific person, it's alright with that person to be "friends" with the jerk that torments others. Did I get that right? If I go out and destroy (with malicious intent) 30 peep's cars it's OK to befriend me (and even defend me as a person) as long as I don't take a sledge hammer to your car.

That was fun !! Any more wonderful uses of logic and reasoning. I've still got a pint of blood left to spew forth. LoL.