Texture compression benchmark / Released textures

[sopa_de_letras]

1024 x 1024 palletized no tiling / 6 polygons - 127fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0008.jpg

1024 x 1024 DXT1 no tiling / 6 polygons - 192fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0007.jpg

1024 x 1024 DXT1 tiling / 6 polygons - 100fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0009.jpg

1024 x 1024 palletized tiling / 6 polygons - 54fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0002.jpg

1024 x 1024 DXT1 / 4 textures / 24 polygons - 106fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0005.jpg

1024 x 1024 palletized / 4 textures / 24 polygons - 53fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0003.jpg

2048 x 2048 DXT1 / 6 polygons - 79fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0004.jpg

2048 x 2048 palletized / 6 polygons - 56fps
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/3dshots/Shot0001.jpg

2048 x 2048 x 24bits uncompressed= 12MB
2048 x 2048 x 24bits compressed= 2MB
2048 x 2048 x 8bits = 2,5MB

The funny thing is, palletized texture with no tiling outperforms DXT1 texture with tiling.

As Diehard has pointed out, I have no idea why UCC mergeDXT outputs the new converted textures in a matter of 2 seconds, whereas ATI compressonator takes 30 seconds and Nvidia photoshop plugin many minutes.

[Shivaxi]

cause UCC pwnz and ATI doesn't?

[Turboman.]

strange, cuz both ati as the nvidia plugin do it in miliseconds on my pc.

[DieHard SCWS]

If you use ucc to add pre-done dds files than i can understand that, because theres no calculation to be done anymore. The thing i didnt know is that ucc is able to merge dds files into the package. I always thought it could only handle 24 bit BMP files (aside the plain PCX and BMP)


And BMP obviously needs to be compressed to to DXT1 (and Alpha if its there). In the case you merge a BMP file than i always asumed it needs time to go do the compression, in the case you can add a dds (DXT1) directly, the calculation is bypassed since its already compressed.

strange, cuz both ati as the nvidia plugin do it in miliseconds on my pc.

That does surprise me, since i see the calculation on other computers can take several minutes as well as on my own systems. What system do you have that it goes that fast ?


And maybe, its because the DXT plugin i use, i use a rather old version(V3.02), maybe the later versions are faster ?

The funny thing is, palletized texture with no tiling outperforms DXT1 texture with tiling.

What do you mean by tiling ? If you mean a texture that is tilable by nature, how can that affect the rendering ?

2048 x 2048 x 24bits uncompressed= 12MB
2048 x 2048 x 24bits compressed= 2MB
2048 x 2048 x 8bits = 2,5MB

Did you use BMP or dds files to merge them into the package ? I am curious about that.




Extra note:

In addition to above, if i import textures into UT2004 and have UT2004 do the compression, it takes about the same time as saving them in Photoshop using the Nvidia plugin! Since UT2004 is a more advanced and newer UnrealEd, one would asume that UT (ucc) can only do it at the same (slow) calculation speed, and not faster...........


For that reason i always wondered if ucc for UT really does make S3TC textures. And simply adds the high resolution 24 bit textures to the package without compression. If that is the case, than the textures should have the highest quallity possible, but are certainly not S3TC !
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[sopa_de_letras]

I opened UED and made two UTX packages, one with PCX and one with BMP.

UED is unable to import DDS, how can I merge DDS then?

And yes, texture repeating itself to cover a large surface have that big fps hit for me at least.

[DieHard SCWS]

I opened UED and made two UTX packages, one with PCX and one with BMP.

Than, how were you able to do a benchmark with dds files? Ah, never mind, you sayd DXT1, and asuming the textures were converted to DXT1 using ucc.

UED is unable to import DDS, how can I merge DDS then?

In that case, you cant  :( The mergertool used for the URProject is not a public tool, since you can create netcompatible packages with those (and therby wallhacks, read: botters).


On request (if the mapper does all the dds savings and the normal package) i do make S3TC packages for other people. Aside the option to create them yourself for UT maps. And now i think of it, the public [url=http://www.celticwarriors.net/Downloads/S3TC/Tools/S3TCext_Version_01.zip][glow=yellow,2,300]S3TCext_Version_01[/glow][/url] could be able to convert homemade UT S3TC packages to Unreal. I never tested this, but here on the spot, i dont see why that wouldnt be possible.

And yes, texture repeating itself to cover a large surface have that big fps hit for me at least.

I get what you mean now, but no clue. Lol, gotta think that over if i can get an explanation for that. But for now, no idea.


Maybe:

Maybe there is a difference to draw just one texture or the same texture over and over again in a repeat, though in your example its downscaled, its possible it still renders them individually. Though more effective than rendering the same amount but different textures. Because the palette obviously is a 100% match with tiling textures. But needs to be said, its a dramatic difference alright.
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[sopa_de_letras]

Oh, I thought you said UCC could inject DDS in UTX.

I forgot to mention, in the 1024 x 1024 tests the cube was 1024 x 1024 x 1024 for one texture and 2048 x 2048 x 2048 for 4 textures.

[DieHard SCWS]

Oh, I thought you said UCC could inject DDS in UTX.

No, i was just theorising in the first post. According to the various posts and few literature you cant, but in no way i am certain of that. As said, i never got ucc to work myself, so i never could test it. Seeing the fact you can, you could give it a try, and tell here if its possible or not. And with all this unknown stuff, i always doubt things, it may be possible that someone in the past said its not possible while he never tested it. And everybody inline simply asumes its not possible........ So if you can run a test, than at least we know 100% its either yes or no possible.

I forgot to mention, in the 1024 x 1024 tests the cube was 1024 x 1024 x 1024 for one texture and 2048 x 2048 x 2048 for 4 textures.

If you refer with that to the DPI value, than it doesnt matter, accidentelly i use the same method, keeping the DPI value the same as the longest side. Mainly in photoshop this is very convienent, since you can simply adjust the DPI value and the actual size will follow that


When that texture is added to the package, regardless BMP, PCX or DDS(Mergertool), it either will stay the same DPI or will be reduced to 72 DPI while maintaining the actual pixel size, which one i am not sure. If you would extract the textures again they in general are 72 DPI. In any case as far as i know the DPI value can be any number, 4096, 1024, 512, 256, 128, 64, etc. or 72 or a printable DPI like 300. If correct Unreal/UT except any number
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[sopa_de_letras]

That's stupid!!

256 cube with no lights, nothing, no hud, no hand, unilit. Default ED texture.

295fps.

1024 cube = half fps, around 130 or less

2048 cube = even less fps, less than 60.

So that's why on large surfaces we are forced to scale textures up? Because the more I scale up the faster it renders, the more I scale it down the slower it renders.

[sopa_de_letras]

I'm using UTPT to extract the textures from both UTXs and Us. But for pure "lazyness" I'm importing everything in one single UTX package, which so far has over 100mb (over 3k PCX textures). Making it s3tc should make it over 200mb I think.

Since messing with the original packages would lead to version missmatches I'm simple making an extra package with a different name and maps with two versions to avoid missmatches and/or incompatibility issues. One copy loads the original packages, the other one loads the external s3tc UTX making it ignore any changes made to the original packages.

For the skins and sprite effects I think I'll need to make a mutator that replaces all model classes with subclasses that load the s3tc compressed textures.

[DieHard SCWS]

Its an interesting story lol.


But the thing i am missing in it, what are planning to go do with all that stuff ? Give us the full story lol

which so far has over 100mb (over 3k PCX textures). Making it s3tc should make it over 200mb I think.

No idea about that, if i look at the SkyCity package i am working on. The original file is aprox 13 Mb, while the S3TC version is closing in at a staggering 400 Mb. Just theoretically a normal package being 100Mb could result in a 3076 Mb big S3TC package, which is pretty much 3 Gigabyte.


The actual size of the package btw prob dont matter, since Unreal/UT only loads the textures it needs. But if it will handle a 3 Gigabyte package camparable fast compared to a 300Mb big package i have no idea.


But i am still interested in what you are planning to do with all that stuff?

There is a download for all Extracted Unreal textures (only a few packages are missing, and/or including procedural textures):

http://www.celticwarriors.net/Downloads/Textures/Unreal/Textures/UnrealTextures.zip

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[sopa_de_letras]

[Removed the two previous replies]

It took a day to batch convert all textures to DDS using ATI's compressonator, about 4500 textures more or less. Now I have to find a way to use them in the maps. The filesize is a bit smaller than PCX and much much smaller than BMP.

My findinds so far have been:

-UCC PKG import cannot import DDS textures nor can a EXEC directive.
-U2runtime UCC gives me an error when trying to import all the textures, no clue why.
-EXEC directive in U2runtime seems to be able to import DDS textures, however due to a keyword change (class expands > class extends) it seems that a package done that way won't be compatible with UT99. Plus, the bitmap actor subclass has been replaced with a Matrial class.
-MergeDXT doesn't exist in Unreal engine 2 and newer.
-There is a long tedious way to import that many textures: I made a macro that is able to repeat the necessary clicks within UED to import a texture till the package is filled up.

Converting a map to s3tc:

I've found out that it can be done like this: Open the map and delete everything, but leave a room with all the mylevel textures and scripts so they are saved. Export the map, open the t3d file in notepad and replace all instances that point to some texture package to the custom s3tc package. Open the custom s3tc package, import the map back and rebuild. It should be safe to delete the "backup" room now.

One problem tough, the editor auto merges all brush polygons when you import a map, you'll need to manually split back the merged polygons.

[DieHard SCWS]

One problem tough, the editor auto merges all brush polygons when you import a map, you'll need to manually split back the merged polygons.

If you export a map as a single brush than true, but if you export the map as a map (t3d) file than it should import as is(Or was lol). Merged polygones only happens if you already merged them to a single brush(or choose so at import).
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[sopa_de_letras]

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/S3TC (I know the text wasn't very well writen)

Hey! after finding that it's possible to use pure DDS textures in UT99 and even UED2 I decided to drop the mergedxt procedure in favor of a much smaller package, 95MB pure DDS textures compared to 300MB of a merged package containing both DDS and PCXs.

I was able to create a UTX containing all the converted DDS textures using UT2k3 UCC. There is a commandlet called editor.batchimport that can import all textures in a row, however, unliked PKG import, it doesn't handle any mipmaps, masks or groups.

I wasn't able to find any way to batch set all detail textures, so this package doesn't contain any detail textures settings.

In case you are interested, grab it here:

Fileplanet comming soon
http://www.gameupdates.org/details.php?returnto=%2Fmytorrents.php&id=1652 (torrent)
http://files.filefront.com/UT+s3tc7z/;8743283;/fileinfo.html
http://www.3ddownloads.com/Action/Unreal%20Tournament/Textures/UT_s3tc.7z

[sopa_de_letras]

Cityintro s3tc test (you'll need the above texture pack to run it)

http://filebuffer.org/d/c7a4f011b54b_s3tc-cityintro.7z
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0cu3ai
http://www.mediafire.com/?b2gmjmym3kx
http://www.filecrunch.com/file/~ytogri

[DieHard SCWS]

I will have a look at it later this week, crazy buzy right now.

If needed you can upload stuff to www.FileFront.com , unlimited space and downloads there, and all for free. In general people are only bothered with one commercial per visit, and you can click ahead on the commercial. All together its not bad host for free accounts.
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