JWSky package

[DieHard SCWS]

I need some input here, the SkyCity textures can be produced fairly easy, the one you can find below was made within 25 minutes.


I can make those citys in few days, but i cannot make the shape excact, only a resemblence of the original.

Take a look at the bottom of the page on the link below. I can make it much more accurate than that, but still i will never be able to make a more than remote match.

http://www.celticwarriors.net/website/S3TC/S3TCTextures/JWSky/JWSky_SkyCity.htm

If such a thing is ok with you all, than i could make that the first S3TC package. This package does not contain anything complicated, and i am pretty sure i can do the whole package in a short time.


As said i just need input from you all if its ok if the shape is not correct...................
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[BOZO]

I do not believe in that case that it particularily matters if it is not exact. All those floating cities are used as background images anyways on all the maps I have ever seen.

Database is looking good!!

[StalwartUK]

Do you realise that the one that you've done does not resemble the original?

One of the main reasons that I loathe S3TC textures are the lack of resemblance to the originals.

[DieHard SCWS]

As it says on the left from the picture:

DrawScale: 0.500000
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Type: Texture
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Note: Testmodel SkyCity


Testmodel means, that its a trial to see if i can make shapes and texture and color to begin with.


I do know now i can make them fairly easy, the colors are perfect as it is, it now comes down to carefylly recreate the shapes as close as possible, and draw the citys on top of them exact as they are.


The 3D programm i use for this can create the shapes with no problem, its just it does it randomly, which means i have to let the programm create several models till i found one that has the biggest resemblence.


For the one you see there, its what it says, its a testmodel i can work from, and has no resemblence at all with the original you can see on the left.


But sure, i can never make an exact match, just as close as possible. In that case its up to the users if they want to go use the new textures.


If you look on this page:
http://www.celticwarriors.net/website/S3TC/S3TCTextures/JWSky/JWSky_Sky.htm and have a look at the nebula, than its obvious there is no resemblence at all. Epic used a photo from an actual nebula there, thusfar i could not found it back.


Since its likely i will finisch the whole package completelly within prob a week, i choose this nebula for now, and yes i will add it to the package if released, till i find the actual nebula that has been used. Remember that the package can always be updated at any time.


Further, and this may be in important note to you, since you can load the package in the UnrealEditor, if someone hates the texture, he can delete it out and replace it with the original If you know the Editor, than that can be done within a minute work..............................


Adding S3TC is the problem, not (re)adding originals.
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[Hyper]

The new S3TC image looks really nice, but i see that you replaced all different original sky islands with the same S3TC one, which is probably not desirable.

[DieHard SCWS]

Again, they are workmodels, not the final result. At the end there will be 11 different SkyCitys not one for all, and not the one you see there now.


Remember that the database is ment for me, so i have an overview for myself on all data. All on it is; notes to myself. Mappers having a database now is an extra positive side effect.
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[DieHard SCWS]

After 2 weeks of setbacks, i finally had time to work on the city's.

http://www.celticwarriors.net/website/S3TC/S3TCTextures/JWSky/JWSky_SkyCity.htm


Half of the rocks are done (r_1 through r_5), and i am pretty convinced i will finish them all this weekend, hopefully........ What is missing are the city's on top of the rocks, i need to rethink how i am gonna build them.


Most of the shapes are ok i think, except for number r_5, the gap in the bottom part is at this moment unduable with the technique i am currently using


But at the end i guess i am more worried that the surface will apear too smooth in Unreal, and that the cloros are too much offset, but we will see....


I already did make a test package 2 weeks ago, and i definatelly had some problems with them, i tested them in DmDeck17SST sice that map contains most of those city's, but for some reason my Unreal started to lag ? ? ? I am not really sure where the problem lies.


Another thing, i desperatelly need the abilitty to import the textures while having Alpha channels in them, so there won't be a black colorbleeding on the edges.


Dispite all, i want to have this package ready for download upcomming week, and no delays on that !! I need people to test them for me, if alll works correctly (like lag, mismatches, color, detail on the surface and so on).


I will release the utx packages in 2 sizes for testing:
512 x 512 pixels
1024 x 1024 pixels

Both packages will lack the city's on top of the rocks, unless i will get that done too, but i asume i won't.
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[DieHard SCWS]

Wow, i can honestly say, i worked my *** of to get this package ready. But here they are


There are 2 packages.


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The first package contains the finished Group Sky, though i do want to redo the Nebula a bit this week. It means this package can be used for real !!!!

[url=http://www.celticwarriors.net/Downloads/S3TCPackages/S3TCPackagesSingles/JWSky.zip]JWSky[/url]



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The second package has all the textures in S3TC version, however the SkyCity Group contains only Masked textures, and for some reason they apear with a black mask. And as i said above, the cities on top of the rocks are still missing, ill do those upcomming week.

[url=http://www.celticwarriors.net/Downloads/S3TCPackages/S3TCPackagesSingles/Test/JWSky.zip]JWSkyTestpackage[/url]





Still i would like to see that people try this one too, and let me know how the textures look like.

You can use [url=http://www.celticwarriors.net/Downloads/DeathMatchMaps/MapsD/DMDeck17.zip]DmDeck17[/url] to test the package and see how the Skycities look like.



For info on how the textures now look like, please go look [url=http://www.celticwarriors.net/website/S3TC/S3TCTextures/JWSky/JWSky.htm]here[/url].


All serious input is very, very welcome I hope you all like my work so far............
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[BOZO]

Looking good - I guess I need to get an STC3 setup running on my computer now...

[Hyper]

Looking good - I guess I need to get an STC3 setup running on my computer now...

Yeah, it's really worth it. At least, if you don't mind those few texturing errors from time to time.

[DieHard SCWS]

A few days have passed by, i would love to hear some replies bad or not, especially for this first testpackage.


Need input here.


Also for Kerill and Smirftsch, if you could find a solution for the masking problem, that would just be one word for that, awsome...


Preferably making it possible to create Alpha channel based textures, if not, than just plain masked textures, or both would even more great.


If needed i can make the textures (Targa or DTX or both) themselves available in a download so you can use them for testing.


But i def would like to hear some input on the now available packages.
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[Kerilkkorn]

DXT1 textures have 1 bit alpha channel and it should be working so create some 1 bit masked alpha textures and test them out. Would be a way to fix the transparency problem with trees and so on, replacing their textures with s3tc masked terxtures.
So the tool you have should have an option to make 1 bit masked textures.

[Hyper]

The new textures are excellent!
Time to kiss the old low-res sky islands good bye.

Really *GREAT* work!

[Turboman.]

excellent job on the skycity textures!
might want to edit the color a bit though, its a bit more brownish then the original, but other then the town for the rest its almost an identical high detail version of the original  8)

i hope to see support for alpha textures too in a future release of the renderer, it would rock and really increase possibilities and indeed like you mentioned get rid of those ugly black borders present on almost any masked texture.

although i found one problem, i cant play online with the textures, it says there is a version mismatch, anyone else have the same problem?

[DieHard SCWS]

I knew that the package had an error, and i tested in my computer and it worked fine...........


But you are right it does have a mismatch online, which means the package is useless at the moment.

I asume this is the problem:

The package name is JWSky
The groups are: Sky and SkyCity

If i create the group SkyCity than its fine, however when i add the group Sky, than UT2004 changes the name into sky with smallcaps s instead of capital S.


I do not understand why this happens, but i tried the package and it worked fine, but i didnt test it online, not realizing that that could make a difference


I at least asume that that is the problem, my question to others would, if you have UT2004 could one of you do a test and see what happens if you do the same with some fake pictures, does your UT2004 change Sky in sky or is this just happening on my side ?


All together this is very dissapointing, i thought i bypassed that problem but it seems not


I am working on another package, and i for sure hope that that one will function as it should be. That package could be done in a couple of weeks and will be a hugh update on one of the most important packages Unreal has.


But in the meantime Turboman, if you have UT2004, could you try it for me and see if UT2004 changes the name too, i would apreciate it if you would try and let me know what happens...........


Ill take the download for this package offline in the menatime
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[Kerilkkorn]

this may be the cause, or maybe the package id is changed when saving again, in case I can fix it, with a little programming, will try to have a look at it. So if you could not remove the link that fast

[DieHard SCWS]

No its not during saving, it happens in the second when you click ok to add the texture to the package, in that brink second the name is altered to sky.

If i use SSKy its fine, if i use Kky or Wky is fine and so on, but for some idiot reason when i usr Sky it will go be sky ? ? ? ?


When i restore the names like above to Sky(in UT2004 you can do that, unfortunatelly Unreal itself cant), than inmediatelly the whole name becomes smallcaps. The same thing happens in the runtime version, therefore i hoped, mayby its a glitch and i just need to reinstall my comp or so.
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[Kerilkkorn]

If the only thing changed is the case of Sky, it can be hex edited easyly as those are kept as ASCII string in the package

[Turboman.]

i think it has to  do with the package id changed, unreal is very strict when it comes to file mismatches, i sometimes accidentally save original maps/textures/sounds without modifying them in unrealed, and the game refuses to connect me because it still recognises a difference.

but ofcourse i could try what you asked about the sky problem maybe later this day.

[DieHard SCWS]

If the only thing changed is the case of Sky, it can be hex edited easyly as those are kept as ASCII string in the package

I am willing to try that, but i have no clue how that works or what programm...............need help there for sure, a small how to maybe....

i think it has to do with the package id changed, unreal is very strict when it comes to file mismatches, i sometimes accidentally save original maps/textures/sounds without modifying them in unrealed, and the game refuses to connect me because it still recognises a difference.

I didnt even think of that, but that is true too

but ofcourse i could try what you asked about the sky problem maybe later this day.

That would be great
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[Turboman.]

Also for Kerill and Smirftsch, if you could find a solution for the masking problem, that would just be one word for that, awsome...

i just found something interesting, seems that there is a new renderer for ut released a few days ago that does support masked s3tc textures (although i have no clue if its done by alpha) might be interesting for anyone to check out

http://cwdohnal.home.mindspring.com/utglr/

If the only thing changed is the case of Sky, it can be hex edited easyly as those are kept as ASCII string in the package

i know a very little bit about hex editing, although an explaination of how to fix compatibility would be nice so we can do it ourselves, which would be easier then exchanging packages.

[DieHard SCWS]

Yes, dispite the last update date on that website, i saw it there when Smirtsch gave that link in the UT forum.


Among alotta other things that was one of the things i wanted to go ask that guy. Another thing would be, if UT does have the sourcecode, is it possible for them to mod the UT editor so it will except Targa and DXT files?


Because if that is possible we would be able to add textures to the excisting packages instead of rebuilding them completelly, since the UT editor is virtually the same as the Unreal editor.


The UT editor won't purge Wave, Wet, animation and DrawScale settings because those features are still supported in the UT editor.


All together as i already said in the other [url=http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=UnrealTournament;action=display;num=1117585674]post[/url], i got tons of questions for that guy.


As far as i see we have 3 problems that needs to be solved urgently:

- abillity to make masked textures work.
- fixing wrong groupnames (Hexeditor ? ? ? )
- making normal and S3TC packages have the same id number, again (Hexeditor ? ? ? )


A fourth point would be the abilitty to replace textures in excisting packages without damaging the settings in the textures (UT editor ? ? ? )


Uptill now i have heard no reply at all how to do such things
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[Turboman.]

i tried figuring it out with a hex editor, while the package name error is easy to change (at least the capital letter problem is), i cant figure out how to make files compatible, people say replace the ascii strings with the originals, but if i do that the file actually becomes the original, quite confused over here  :-/

and the masked texture problem is related to the renderer, so i guess we cant do much about it as long as the renderer doesnt support it yet, although hopefully it will be updated soon

[DieHard SCWS]

Ok, it seems i succesfully HEXED the JWSky package to change the group name from sky to Sky


One down, three problems to go....
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[DieHard SCWS]

Here is a re-release for the JWSky package.

The textures are still the same, so its more a technical update.

- Package is networkcompatible.
- Package has full Alpha Masked textures

Here is downloadlink:

http://www.celticwarriors.net/website/S3TC/S3TCTextures/JWSky/JWSky.htm


And rest asure i will redo the textures as soon as possible.
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