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My old maps

The forum related to the Usermaps section, please ask questions here. This board is for mappers to discuss and exchange experiences
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NipseyHussle2
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My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

Here are my old maps, from 20+ years ago.


CloserToHeaven: a slightly more complex model: uses a number of boxes (vs the one box of the other example file).
TundraMagi: called 00..TundraMagi to get to the top of the naliplanet downloads list back in the day. This is a more complex example: using various shapes including octagons.
Autoplay arena

Some more original works as .t3d files and corresponding .unr files;

https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... esmore.zip
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: My old maps

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Thanks for sharing. I'll look into it as soon as I can.
As for your project, I am sure there are people who can help you load that stuff properly, though you might not find them around here much so many people flew to discord which is a shame and only check this now and then. They are do dependand on discord now...I think its ruining everyone's lives if you ask me.
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:06 pm T
I can't go 5 min without being banned from a discord server.
The second you start talking about what you're programming on boom ban.
IRC is like that too now'adays. Lots of people want to control speech and who and what you talk to/about.
They don't build anything: ofcourse. That's their enjoyment: "fixing the community" (to be silent).

I found opensource math/C++ code for both formats (.t3d and .unr), and took alook: but our engine is in C, and the .unr project is very... well every single subroutine seems to be in a seperate file for some reason; hard to read it thus.

I set up our opensource engine such that it allready "loads" .t3d into memory if you ask it to (map somemap.t3d), and even parses and prints the vertex info, but as you know: t3d requires alot of csg ops: which that C++ opensource code I linked does. With .unr the csg is allready done: and that other project (ushock) does that: but you know, in it's own way.
Map loading isn't "that hard" to code in this engine if you know everything about the map format and the engine: but we're kinda burnt out from doing other map formats allready and just need help. IE: have a project of greater than one person.

We did all the otherstuff tho: and if someone would help get .unr and /or .t3d parsed and loaded in then everything could work out.
the relevant code is in model_brush.c, last subroutine, for t3d : but we didn't get far ourselves.
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:06 pm
Autoplay arena got some play on the naliplanet servers back in the day.
We've asked everywhere we could find or think about in opensource world for help with the code: ie more contributors. Just constantly get banned and our posts deleted.
There's no communication anymore.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: My old maps

Post by Leo T_C_K »

NipseyHussle2 wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:21 pm
Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:06 pm T
I can't go 5 min without being banned from a discord server.
The second you start talking about what you're programming on boom ban.
IRC is like that too now'adays. Lots of people want to control speech and who and what you talk to/about.
They don't build anything: ofcourse. That's their enjoyment: "fixing the community" (to be silent).

I found opensource math/C++ code for both formats (.t3d and .unr), and took alook: but our engine is in C, and the .unr project is very... well every single subroutine seems to be in a seperate file for some reason; hard to read it thus.

I set up our opensource engine such that it allready "loads" .t3d into memory if you ask it to (map somemap.t3d), and even parses and prints the vertex info, but as you know: t3d requires alot of csg ops: which that C++ opensource code I linked does. With .unr the csg is allready done: and that other project (ushock) does that: but you know, in it's own way.
Map loading isn't "that hard" to code in this engine if you know everything about the map format and the engine: but we're kinda burnt out from doing other map formats allready and just need help. IE: have a project of greater than one person.

We did all the otherstuff tho: and if someone would help get .unr and /or .t3d parsed and loaded in then everything could work out.
the relevant code is in model_brush.c, last subroutine, for t3d : but we didn't get far ourselves.
I'll try to answer some of your stuff later when it comes to programming (having asked someone too). However we are not familiar with that opensource code you describe, but still...

how did you get the other map parts to your game though? Were those done from scratch or from existing quake3 conversions etc of the same maps?

And also as for IRC, well its moderated by people who are already used to discord or other "modern" way of doing things but you just weren't in the right places honestly. There are still some more traditional IRC networks around but indeed its getting less and less common now.
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 3:59 pm how did you get the other map parts to your game though? Were those done from scratch or from existing quake3 conversions etc of the same maps?
In the video; that map is a remake of Deck-16 by meritica-kitsune in the q3 map bsp format.
The hydro-plant map is a obj file found on sketchfab: and shows our recent work to get obj files working as actual game world maps.

The weapons we built ourselves: 3d models and code.
We've done 50+ maps from scratch ourself. 100s of buildings/models too, so you can generate cities in this game.
Last year we programmed, in the engine, wolfenstine:enemyterritory bsp map loading: that took a month. It got us 600+ more maps one could play.
This year we did the engine code to allow obj files to be used as maps themselves: which opens up alot more maps (and can directly be exported from minetest/minecraft and bzflag: the old code couldn't be used as maps and didn't even show bzflag maps at all and wasn't correct for the others). That gets all of sketchfab.

So we show that haven't done nothing. We just really want unreal format too. And it's possible as we added the other format.
We just don't want to do it alone anymore: other projects have contributors. We just have ourself: 1 person. Has been this way for 10 years.
But we know our limit: we know we cannot do these formats, t3d and .unr, alone. While we were able to do wolfenstine:enemyterritory and quakearenalive bsp format compatability and loading ourselves: and fix up obj loading to be used as maps; and extend the netcode to 4 million entities; we know we now need other contributors for this one.

We wanted to show that we have everything else ready: the weaps, etc. So all that is needed is if someone would help parse the t3d and unr file formats. The code expects them to be translated into the vertexes and faces; and then it does what's necessary. I guess it's easier with .unr as that allready has all of that precomputed (while .t3d requires csg math).
A ticket was made here explaining things and showing what has allready been found: https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... tickets/2/ (txt: sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueanthology/tickets/2/ )

(important file: model_brush.c)And the engine code (GPL) has been posted here for easy viewing (note: the current sourcecode is included with all the game downloads (ISOs etc)): https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... ster/tree/ (txt: sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueanthology/code-t3d_attempt_engine/ci/master/tree/ )

We used to make unreal maps so it would be nice to see them again :(
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yrex .
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Re: My old maps

Post by yrex . »

If all you need is a one-time conversion, then the 227 editor already has OBJ export. Otherwise...

For T3D, your best bet is to use this (not sure if the license allows bundling it in someone's engine): https://ut99.org/viewtopic.php?t=13733

For UNR, well, while it doesn't involve hardcore and error-prone math, the format itself is very complex, likely too much to fit in one subroutine. From UT_Package_File_Format.pdf, you can learn about Compact Indices, name/import/export tables, stack, properties, and then you'll have a basic overview of the file's contents. The interesting things (Level and Model) aren't included, so try looking for them in either UTPT's "Auto format" feature, or some of my code (especially files UPLib\PackageClasses.vb, UPLib\Models.vb, UnExtract\Module1.vb).
My work | contact: ampoyrex at wp dot pl
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: My old maps

Post by Leo T_C_K »

yrex . wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:21 pm If all you need is a one-time conversion, then the 227 editor already has OBJ export. Otherwise...

For T3D, your best bet is to use this (not sure if the license allows bundling it in someone's engine): https://ut99.org/viewtopic.php?t=13733

For UNR, well, while it doesn't involve hardcore and error-prone math, the format itself is very complex, likely too much to fit in one subroutine. From UT_Package_File_Format.pdf, you can learn about Compact Indices, name/import/export tables, stack, properties, and then you'll have a basic overview of the file's contents. The interesting things (Level and Model) aren't included, so try looking for them in either UTPT's "Auto format" feature, or some of my code (especially files UPLib\PackageClasses.vb, UPLib\Models.vb, UnExtract\Module1.vb).
Thanks for coming to the rescue with this. I tried to put attention of several people for this before (but failing), however I think your answer is all that he should need.
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

yrex . wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:21 pm
I would like to beable to load t3d and unr map files in the engine. It can load a variety of map and model formats, from bsp ones (Q1, Q3, wolfenstine:enemyterritory (I did that one)) to arbitrary mesh soup like obj; and can load obj files from bzflag (and also minetest/minecraft) as maps additionally now too (I did that :P). (before obj files could only be used as models in a map and bzflag obj wouldn't show at all)

I do not feel I'm able to do t3d and unr on my own. I need more contributors to this opensource project, it's been a solo thing for 10 years but now that I've branched into other map formats I need help. I'm not good enough at it to do the weirder ones. I found opensource C++ code for both .unr and .t3d with csg : which can be used for understanding the math. (*our project is C)

(.unr) UShock(C++): http://sourceforge.net/projects/ushock/
(.t3d) T3d2Map(C++): http://github.com/mildred/t3d2map

I was hoping that other Unreal lovers would maybe help with this. I did a ton of work on this opensource platform. 200 weapons, including unreal style ones. All that is needed is programmers who know these formats or who have the willpower to do it. I do C code, QC, 3d models, maps, etc. Just need more people now. I just can't do it all anymore. If t3d and unr were added to this code then we would beable to open those formats forever; just as was realized when I programmed the wolfenstine:enemyterritory bsp loading into the engine. That opened up 600 maps; including many I used to like. I was hoping to interest other programmers to make this happen here. A day of coding could make those levels cross platform. But a day from someone who knows the info (for others it would take a month probably (I'd be lucky if I could do it in 2))

I allready coded a file loader for t3d in the model_brush.c file in : https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... ster/tree/
and it prints the vertexes, but that's all I did for that format: I knew to ask for help and collaboration.

It's a completely opensource project: media included: so I've given everything I've done away, including vehicles, city, generation,etc.
I used to make unreal maps and would like to see them in this game. It's a passion. And since the work with the other map formats worked out: this could too.
Last edited by NipseyHussle2 on Wed Oct 04, 2023 6:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:48 pm
I'm not able to do the unreal code myself. After doing the obj map stuff this summer I'm burnt out. Also I added 30 more vehicles this summer and submarines and features regarding that.
I need more collaborators. The project is completely opensource: so I've given everything away. I was just hoping since I got the wolfenstine:enemyterritory maps working last year, and all of sketchfab working this year (though the map.obj_from_mc code), and minetest/minecraft stuff working; that maybe we could finish the trifecta?

See in the past it took people like a full day to take a minecraft export and turn it into a map for this platform. Now it takes 2 seconds: because the engine can deal with them directly as maps now: and I also did all the game code to support that aswell. I do all the other aspects of game. Jack of all trades. But I am a master of none. So I was just thinking: opensource projects usually have more than 0 or 1 people. So I thought I'd ask. Unreal and Unreal Tournament were my first and most beloved forrays into 3d: and with the obj code I was reading I realized that the engine can simply treat any 3d map data as just "tri-soup" data and convert it: it's allready coded in: all one has to do is feed it the vertexes and the faces. They allready did the work.

So... I was hoping; and looked at t3d first.

I'm not a professional C programmer: I just hack, and hack, and hack on the code. Until I "get it" and it works, and then is refined abit, and made to work well. It takes along time this way. But sometimes daylight can be seen from one thing to another: from Q3 to some other formats isn't that huge a jump: so I was able to get it done eventually through alot of trial and error and tracing the program, and also reading and understanding some of the opensource wolfenstine enemy territory engine that was released (had to really look into that for some of the shaders: what they were supposed to do; and also some data structures). Same with the obj export map formats. They weren't working before (would just crash the engine: not allowed to be maps) but with 2 weeks of hacking on it they do now. (one aside on quakelive bsp format: it has the same number as the wolfenstine:enemyterritory bsp format so I had to find another way to differentiate it; couldn't trust the file header; so I did; and then delt with the extra hunks in the quakelive format vs q3: so now both those extra formats work fine: the wolfenstine:enemyterritory one was alot harder than the quakelive one ofcourse)

(As another aside: I did ask for wolfenstine:enemyterritory bsp loading 15 years ago: and they never did it in those 15 years. So I finally did it myself. So even if things seem very hard: they can be done. )

That's why I need more collaborators after 10 years. I've reached the limit of what I can reasonably do myself sanely.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: My old maps

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Then why don't you just....turn things into obj via the oldunreal 227 community patch editor like yrex suggested? Sure that's not direct t3d but if you can't bother examining any of the code...or you can really use the t3d to obj program..why not then?

just a step in between...

www.crabaware.com/Utils/t3d_to_obj/t3d_to_obj.zip
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:22 pm Then why don't you just....turn things into obj via the oldunreal 227 community patch editor like yrex suggested? Sure that's not direct t3d but if you can't bother examining any of the code...or you can really use the t3d to obj program..why not then?
Well the goal isn't to convert any single specific map: it's to support all unreal maps.
I've examined the other code and will take a look at the newly posted code: I'm saying I lack the talent to use it. The other map formats I did: I did fresh and they weren't too long a way from other formats. I just do not have the talent or enough absolute will to get the code done: I spent it on the obj map work this summer and on other vehicle work in the game.
So I want more contributors. Since I'm an old unreal mapper I though i'd be ok to ask.

See: I have done the models, the game code, etc; so I wanted to show you guys that: that if you helped implement the t3d and/ unr loading that everything else is already done.

An example: One could allready, for instance, convert minecraft models to bsp but it took all day: so I shortened it to 2 seconds by directly supporting the exported format, for instance.
The goal it to reduce the user work to nothing. For instance: only one or two minecraft maps were ever converted to bsp it took so long to bother to get right; now it's 2 seconds and you're in.
I would like it to be the same with unreal.

It seems possible because I've been in the guts of this engine and did implement other formats, and support for other map types. So I just want help. I can't do it alone.
I ask on all opensource forums but they don't allow any discussion.
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

yrex . wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:21 pm ry looking for them in either UTPT's "Auto format" feature, or some of my code (especially files UPLib\PackageClasses.vb, UPLib\Models.vb, UnExtract\Module1.vb).
Thank you for the suggestion, I've posted your code to the ticket for study, so it doesn't get lost: https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... tickets/2/ (txt: sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueanthology/tickets/2/ )
It will take me a long time to learn this, if I ever am able to. (As I'm a hacker not really a professional programmer.) My main passions are mapping and sometimes 3d models, but I do code also; and when I must I code in the engine (C).
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: My old maps

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Good luck. Unfortunately I'm also not a real programmer and in general I only code in UnrealScript.

But yes I understand now, you want the support to be there so that others can import maps easily....
NipseyHussle2
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Re: My old maps

Post by NipseyHussle2 »

Model_brush.c is the main file where new map and model formats are parsed: https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... el_brush.c

An example one is void Mod_OBJ_Load on line 7562. Which loads the triangle data for an obj file (loads the vertex and then the face data).
It would be nice to load the .unr map type too. These usually contain much less triangle data than any object file: but they are and were high quality maps and were fun.

Then a line is added in Model_shared.c to let the engine know that format is now parsable and what subroutine to use: https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... l_shared.c
An example of this is in Mod_LoadModel, the on line 575 if (!strcasecmp(FS_FileExtension(mod->name), "obj")) Mod_OBJ_Load(mod, buf, bufend); . Which tells the engine if the file extension is .obj to execute Mod_OBJ_Load.

There are also .h files for both to add the headers of any new subroutine or global variable used.

There is C++ code to load .unr files here: https://sourceforge.net/p/chaosesqueant ... ce.tar.bz2
But our engine is C. The C++ code is opensource.
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