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Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

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OjitroC
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Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by OjitroC »

A while ago, I came across an untextured version of Zeitkind (DM-Sniper-city) which had Unreal pickups (weapons, health, armor etc). Using UT 469c (or possibly 469d, I can't remember which now) and hence UnrealEditor 2.2, I textured the map with Lego textures and, more importantly, went through and replaced all the pickups with UT99 versions. I repathed the map, using Buggie's PathMaker; rebuilt the navigation network using sektor's MapGarbage; and checked the map (and navigation chain) using MapGarbage and Buggie's MapChecker. I saved the map after every check and rebuild of the network.

I added in some new items of UT99 inventory (obviously rebuilding the navigation chain and saving after changes). I set the default gametype as Botpack.DeathMatchPlus.

Now here's the 'odd thing' - in the Editor viewports all the pickups are UT99 pickups; however, when I use the search for actors dialogue the pickups that were in the map originally show up as Unreal pickups so, for example, the UT99 sniper rifle appears as Rifle or UT minigun2 as Minigun (despite, as I say, everyting showing up in the Editor viewports and ingame as UT99 pickps). The pickups I have added to the map appear normally in the dialogue/list as UT99 pickups.

So the question is - why/how does that happen? Is there a hidden actor somewhere that is causing this (I have not noticed any unusual/unknown to me actor or mutator in the list of actors in the search for actors list).

Mysteriously my UnrealEditor.ini has also changed with some UserDefined buttons/commands removed - whether or not this is related to the other issue I don't know.
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Reborn
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by Reborn »

1) If you replace an actor, they still have their old tag and old name.
For example, if you replace a rifle with a sniper rifle, it will retain tag 'Rifle' and name 'Rifle0'.
UnrealEd searches for actors by their names.
2) To find old names, you can export the map to t3d format, open it in notepad, and search for actors.
OjitroC
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by OjitroC »

Reborn wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:20 pm 1) If you replace an actor, they still have their old tag and old name.
For example, if you replace a rifle with a sniper rifle, it will retain tag 'Rifle' and name 'Rifle0'.
UnrealEd searches for actors by their names.
Thanks for the reply.

I've never come across this before and I have recently edited quite a few maps with Unreal inventory in them (maps like DarkCIty, Zeitkind and Zahltag for example).

I've just quickly edited a few items in a map picked at random - Unreal map DMTown1 from 1998 - and the search for actors dialogue list correctly shows the names of the switched items - so, for examle, the Unreal Armor was swopped for Botpack.Armor2 and this shows up correctly in the list as it does in the MarkedItem property for the relevant InventorySpot (Armor2'MyLevel.Armor1). The armor shows up in the Map as UT armor2.

In DM-Sniper-City (and in the two versions of it that I produced as Lego textured maps) this is how the MarkedItem property for one of the items I swapped for UT inventory appears (in this case a Botpack.RocketPack which replaced a RocketCan) RocketPack'MyLevel.RocketCan3'. So, for some reason, the list in MyLevel is not being fully replaced as it should be, even with the marked item having changed.

Also in the maps I have edited I have swapped PlayerStarts for PathNodes and these are correctly shown in the list of actors as PathNodes rather than PlayerStarts.

My conclusion then is that something is preventing the NavigationPoint list in MyLevel (which will, presumably, include the InventorySpots and their MarkedItems) from being properly updated when the NavigationPoint network is rebuilt and the map saved.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by Leo T_C_K »

So rebuilding paths is not helping? In my experience the "name" only gets kept if its improperly replaced like when using tables editor or hex editing but not on the actor name instances..
OjitroC
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by OjitroC »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:58 am So rebuilding paths is not helping? In my experience the "name" only gets kept if its improperly replaced like when using tables editor or hex editing but not on the actor name instances..
No - I've rebuilt the paths numerous times in those two maps - for example, every time I've addressed an issue with the pathing raised by the checkers or when adding/replacing inventory items.

It's not a big issue as the swapped items show up properly in the Editor viewports and ingame - I'm just curious why it should happen, what it might be in the map that prevents the original item names (but not classes) being changed (and it is map-specific since, as I say, I edited many maps with Unreal inventory items in them and never come across this issue before).
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by Leo T_C_K »

OjitroC wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 6:45 pm
Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:58 am So rebuilding paths is not helping? In my experience the "name" only gets kept if its improperly replaced like when using tables editor or hex editing but not on the actor name instances..
No - I've rebuilt the paths numerous times in those two maps - for example, every time I've addressed an issue with the pathing raised by the checkers or when adding/replacing inventory items.

It's not a big issue as the swapped items show up properly in the Editor viewports and ingame - I'm just curious why it should happen, what it might be in the map that prevents the original item names (but not classes) being changed (and it is map-specific since, as I say, I edited many maps with Unreal inventory items in them and never come across this issue before).
So what method did you use to replace them exactly?
OjitroC
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by OjitroC »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:00 pm So what method did you use to replace them exactly?
I go through the Search For Actors dialogue/list - so, for example, the first weapon that one finds is probably the ASMD - double click on the first one - highlight it in the Editor DynamicLight Viewport (I use that or the Textured viewport) - go to Select All ASMD - so all those are selected in the map - go to Botpack.ShockRille in the Actor List->UT TournamentWeapons - highlight that - go to Replace with Botpack.ShockRifle in the menu that comes up when right mouse clicking on the selected ASMDs - click on that and they are all replaced by the Shock Rifle.

Continue through the whole Search For Actors list replacing Unreal pickups (ammo, armor, health, weapons etc) - I might leave the odd searchlight or Kevlar or Invisibility as the last two will be replaced anyway by the UT99 DeathmatchPlus mutator though I don't always leave them.

After a reasonable number of replacements I will rebuild the path network using sektor's MapGarbage tool - it depends of course on the number of replacements - I may leave rebuilding until I have replaced all or most Unreal pickups if there aren't a lot. I will save the map after a number of replacements and after each rebuild of the network.

I replace most or all of the Unreal pickups as it removes the need for the 'Engine' to check and replace them when starting a map - so the map loads a bit quicker AND one doesn't get a long list of 'found ... at ....' (the list of Unreal items found and replaced) - the latter can be important in maps with lots of pickups, particularly ammo - just makes for a shorter log and thus easier to look for any Warnings/Errors, which are my main concern when playing a map with 'new' ScriptedPawns I have 'made' and I am looking for potential issues/errors with them.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by Leo T_C_K »

OjitroC wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:00 pm So what method did you use to replace them exactly?
I go through the Search For Actors dialogue/list - so, for example, the first weapon that one finds is probably the ASMD - double click on the first one - highlight it in the Editor DynamicLight Viewport (I use that or the Textured viewport) - go to Select All ASMD - so all those are selected in the map - go to Botpack.ShockRille in the Actor List->UT TournamentWeapons - highlight that - go to Replace with Botpack.ShockRifle in the menu that comes up when right mouse clicking on the selected ASMDs - click on that and they are all replaced by the Shock Rifle.

Continue through the whole Search For Actors list replacing Unreal pickups (ammo, armor, health, weapons etc) - I might leave the odd searchlight or Kevlar or Invisibility as the last two will be replaced anyway by the UT99 DeathmatchPlus mutator though I don't always leave them.

After a reasonable number of replacements I will rebuild the path network using sektor's MapGarbage tool - it depends of course on the number of replacements - I may leave rebuilding until I have replaced all or most Unreal pickups if there aren't a lot. I will save the map after a number of replacements and after each rebuild of the network.

I replace most or all of the Unreal pickups as it removes the need for the 'Engine' to check and replace them when starting a map - so the map loads a bit quicker AND one doesn't get a long list of 'found ... at ....' (the list of Unreal items found and replaced) - the latter can be important in maps with lots of pickups, particularly ammo - just makes for a shorter log and thus easier to look for any Warnings/Errors, which are my main concern when playing a map with 'new' ScriptedPawns I have 'made' and I am looking for potential issues/errors with them.
Okay first of all..so you use only the editor and not other tools, alright that is a valid way...second you need to watch out because the replace with function was famously broken in some versions. Like it used to be even in the left brush menu but got left out later when UnrealED2 came along. I suspect that something might have broken in the last 469 update then (again). There were some issues when replacing actors with that method, like...it checked some bullshit like even stasis or static at some point but not sure about that anymore. Its definitely something to watch out for and you can only know by pasting a cut/copied actor into a text file to see what it messed up. Either way that replace with menu I know from one of the 227 versions and the wip 227j i tested that i could still run had replace with and replace with (keep values)...one of them might do this now that it literally keeps the values even of the object name when it technically should maybe ignore that? This is what I suspect is going on now. It was always a bit messy function.

Also I myself recommend replacing kevlarsuits and such because custom mutators don't have support for them often and it can conflict with the basemutator AND its always better to see the end result than dealing with something that looks too odd. And same for invisibility, part of ut invisibility might be in the floor if you let the mutator replace it, etc. When we did UT Classic Pack 3 with Lightning Hunter the replace with function wasn't brought back yet and he warned me about using it anyways via command. Because of those problems with it leaving something on...so we did all the replacing by hand in practice which was slow and tedious at the time.

Searchlight is something that doesn't get replaced just like scubagears which already appeared in ut though it always bugged me that they auto activated and they didn't fix that, at least with Unreal you could turn them off and on. Why not provide players with a hotkey for scubagear activation? They did that with early Unreal 2 as well, provide hotkeys for u2flashlight even though the inventory system was still there and usable otherwise from Unreal, unlike in regular UT.
OjitroC
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Re: Unreal pickups remain in the list of actors although replaced by UT pickups

Post by OjitroC »

Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:57 pm ... Its definitely something to watch out ... Also I myself recommend replacing kevlarsuits and such because custom mutators don't have support for them often and it can conflict with the basemutator ... And same for invisibility, part of ut invisibility might be in the floor if you let the mutator replace it, etc.
Yes, thanks for that - I'll make sure I do replace all that 'stuff' in future and keep an eye on the ReplaceWith function.
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