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Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Victor Delacroix wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:03 pm
Leo T_C_K wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:18 pm "Steele Dawn Extended" I planned to extend it/merge with another project that was originally meant to be an addon for FLP. his other project would focus on formerly cover disc levels/exclusives of various kind remastered in similar matter like FLP.
IMO bundling more standalone levels into a pack is risky. There's one guy specializing in this already, Stvaan Ivanhoe, and depending on who you ask, opinions vary. While I really appreciate his remixes of existing maps with new storyline twists, some others outright call it stealing maps. So these types of releases may occasionally draw community ire. While FLP didn't, more... would end up attracting undue attention IMO.

Plus, while compact (just 8 main SP levels!), Steele Dawn is really tightly knit and finalizing such a pack really isn't such a challenge after you look at the levels more closely.

I haven't heard of the guy improving on geometry apart from patching but I don't know really, you probably know more about this.

Fact is it wouldn't be stealing, as always the original authors get spotlight and I would make sure to try to ask as many of them as possible too. The levels I'd choose were prominently featured already on cover disc releases/other discs and since they are not campaigns of their own they received very little attention plus some of them even come from the SD developers or associates. Like between river ruins and lavaplant there is no smooth transition now but imagine putting gramercy in between, it ends in a mountain corridor just like lavaplant starts, there's lava all around only the beginning needs to be modified and the level tweaked up to standards with some things taking from the common version and the other from the special CD version. Many people didn't know the maps featured in FLP well before that pack was released and I can tell you it had much more positive responses outside of USP etc which is a closeted community and people playing co-op often disagree with their views. Besides it was based on something already pre-existing even though there was supposed to be more coming out of that and another contest that didn't get finalized sponsored by french gti, votlan plus the link to old classic contest levels (outside of the contest that they were going to hold themselves with xanaweb cooperation) is all they put out in the end as the venture closed prematurely.
While I am unsure about Liberation specifically, you just gave me an idea. I'll check Steve's maps overall... maybe there is a more completed, personalized Old Township out there? That would be a huge burden lifted off our backs. Since the two first levels, Parde's and Farrow's are larval, having access to a more completed Old Township made by the original author would help immensely. I haven't thought of checking that. Will do so on Monday.
you mean like a dm level or something? I doubt it but you can look ofc. But yea I had planned that liberation could start after the original textured jollyroger. As in you'd escape and crash land in liberation ep1 and it would match thematically.
For the time being we are making sure to keep it 225-onwards compatible, however an UT version of SteeleDawn.u with weapons classed as TournamentWeapons and olWeapons would be a nice touch. However that is for another day. For now, 225 U1, then we'll see. I won't toss everything on Yrex' head. Also, could you kindly ask JackHonda to contact me? If he's handling your releases now and helping with projects, we'll coordinate better if we're all in touch.
that's why I usually handled the ut weapons conversions myself, even though some of them are more of quickjob than the others (noticable on dedicated servers where some guns animate buggily on the client, but it all is gameplay functional which matters the most).

But for packs like flp we didn't end up making the ut counterparts so I had them replaced via a server side mutator for 3's for example.

but making it at least basically run on ut without a full support should be tried with the 225 being the target obviously so i approve.
In my opinion, not only it wouldn't cut the development time but it would even extend it. Handling TWO JollyRogers, additional maps in-between while finalizing those that are in decent shape or have the potential to quickly become such (I'm lookin' at ya, Starport!) is a lot and IDK how exactly it would help with Vegra or Old Township, which are the only ones completely larval.
dude, sure it wouldn't cut developement of SD in half, but it would cut developement of BOTH packs in half. Because the cover cd pack is something I had planned for a long time and when the SD content suddenly became avaiable I thought of merging the projects and since SD is so short on itself it couldn't hurt I thought. It would be especially for my purposes more efficient. And for servers like 3's which have limited slots for packs now and the mutator became enormous to the point of engine not handling more lines within a function as there's a hard limit.
I somehow missed it, or haven't noticed there is one. I'll check this out. You're saying it doesn't even have a mesh? I'll check what would fit but to be honest I'd rather avoid Unreal II weapons, even if alpha ones. I think they wouldn't fit thematically. I'll look into that Demolisher from DoomReal instead, maybe I can extract/convert that model somehow. It wasn't with any Unreal alphas or source codes, was it? So, Demolisher with 220UTFlakCannon look, am I getting this right?
The resources are already compatible except for sounds which i've already extracted, but Marissa should still be informed/asked of course since she animated the mesh. The mesh was avaiable but no skin so marissa did that obviously (and based on the original uv maps mind you). I talked about this before including above the link to the post in this very thread.
like here viewtopic.php?p=98961#p98961

but yes basically that look
Since this is very clearly a mini-nuclear-warhead launcher, yeah, a flak cannon mesh wasn't going to cut it. For the time being I asked Yrex to give it a miniaturized Redeemer look. If you insist on a peacemaker mesh... I don't know, it could always be switched but I honestly don't think this is a good idea. The peacemaker is the peacemaker and works completely differently. For now I'd rather keep the 'deemer mesh on it, it honestly fits once you think of it, it's the only canon nuke weapon so it makes sense.
I wanted to avoid using as much of the botpack resources as possible maybe except for impact hammer which I already see being used too.

Fact is, they planned the nuke (read the sdeightball script) differently to redeemer. It was supposed to be more like an extra ammo/item that you'd activate in combination with the eightball but its better to use it with the f3 grenadelauncher and have the altfire alternate between ammos/firing modes. One of the modes is seven mini grenades, other is one bigger grenade and last is the nuke, that's what I propose and how I basically finalized it, so of course the nuke's final apperance should be altered peacemaker mesh and the nuke should be possible to be used separately outside of f3 grenade launcher but WITH the option of using it with that weapon making it somewhat unique concept. So you can use the nuke standalone ala peacemaker AND separately as alt ammo with the f3 grenade launcher.

And as I said there's already a "portable nuke" in one of the games, the bomb in Unreal Championship Alpha in that version of Bombing run before it became the ball...

the genius of this decision is also that the f3 grenadelauncher name will become true to the name, it will have three functions as suggested.
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I sent you additional pm. But fact is the mininuke concept works so well and if the f3 grenadelauncher is used in combination the peacemaker "shell" can be discarded just like shellcase.

Implying the player has just used it/loaded the weapon with the core of the mininuke.
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Victor Delacroix
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

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Leo T_C_K wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:32 am I sent you additional pm. But fact is the mininuke concept works so well and if the f3 grenadelauncher is used in combination the peacemaker "shell" can be discarded just like shellcase.

Implying the player has just used it/loaded the weapon with the core of the mininuke.
I completely do not understand the term 'f3' in the 'f3 grenade launcher' to begin with. I thought it was a separate from the nuker.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

the nuker wasn't made for steele dawn itself, its just for inspiration to make the mininuke which was planned but not implemented.

The mininuke was to be used with sdeightball, but sdeightball is just a copy of normal eightball except the comments. But since there was the sdgrenadelauncher in steeldawn.u which is the f3 grenade launcher and we are not making a sd version of each weapon (which wasnt the original plan anyway but they started doing so in order to add mostly brandon's hands/arms on each weapon) it makes more sense to add it to the sdgrenadelauncher.

The f3 I meant as function 3, as in three-function grenadelauncher. The third function would be the nuke. I have suspicion that they might have made the sdgrenadelauncher class right after sdeightball so the plan might have been there to move the mininuke to it after all and it would make sense. just steeldawn.u was very unfinished and wip with lots of placeholders.

EDIT: Either that or make the f3-grenadelauncher launch f3 keyboard keys.... :D

Also its obviously a nod to Shadow Warrior too since the team had worked on an addon for it (or multiple of them even). Speaking of that the original ms dos release of The Last Warrior with the executables is still missing. That was by the same team as Stone Killer. But all those teams shared team members here and there.
edit2:
in fact there's even class sdblaster but the comments say its the same as DP(they simply didn't want such long name as sddispersionpistol). Unless you'd use the base for such a blaster that gun the pirates are holding. But then the Impact hammer should go I think, if "blaster" would be implemented too as player weapon.

You could in theory also make a pirate playerpawn with the gun being replaced by weapon triangle instead.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

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For now the pirates' blaster is merely an aesthetic choice. Function-wise the regular fire is similar to a standard QACannon energy bolt (not the one melting) and their leader's gun will have a different function altogether.

As to why the Nut Buster (220 Impact Hammer) is included, the reason is simple. Brandon is a civilian, so him having a regular working tool which the IH initially was prior to being included in the Tournament almost 200 years later, is simply logical.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Victor Delacroix wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:46 pm For now the pirates' blaster is merely an aesthetic choice. Function-wise the regular fire is similar to a standard QACannon energy bolt (not the one melting) and their leader's gun will have a different function altogether.

As to why the Nut Buster (220 Impact Hammer) is included, the reason is simple. Brandon is a civilian, so him having a regular working tool which the IH initially was prior to being included in the Tournament almost 200 years later, is simply logical.
ok that makes sense. But i hope the history of the sdgrenadelauncher and the mininuke addon is more or less clear now. It could also have been that it had the mininuke at first then they planned to instead put it to sdeightball as they thought the grenades in eightball are useless now that they have actual GL, because the script comment says the alt fire of the eightball would launch the nuke. So its most likely the other way than my theory. But since there won't be separate classes for each weapon now it makes sense to indeed make it like I said, to add mode switching for the GL to altfire and have it have the nuke as altmode with possibility to also use the nuke separately as item/peacemaker style.
edit:
I also hope that the latest qacannon from steeldawn.u was used as base though because it had additional effects and was more effective in practice although it lacked the quickfire thing(that it no longer fires with primary at the target after its hit with alt even if you press alt again). But maybe that is for the better.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

You guys are going to use the sdlavabeast from steeledawn.u right? (steeldawn.u also has it but its missing the skins/effects)

Also alcapowned made a test quadlegged predator that is inspired by the now "unknown name" creature seen in the early screenshots (that we don't have the full res of). If you guys would like to use it, I suppose you can let him know.

Also will the interactive panels reappear in some form (not tied to a special player class?). The classes are in steeldawn.u again for reference. Originally made for awgd.

EDIT: Also are you going to make a moddb page for this? yrex still should have an account there
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Victor Delacroix
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

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Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:17 pmYou guys are going to use the sdlavabeast from steeledawn.u right? (steeldawn.u also has it but its missing the skins/effects)
Not only we are using it but also upgrading it a bit.
Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:17 pmAlso alcapowned made a test quadlegged predator that is inspired by the now "unknown name" creature seen in the early screenshots (that we don't have the full res of). If you guys would like to use it, I suppose you can let him know.
That's the first I'm hearing of this but I already discussed with someone to make the predator creature you speak of.
Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:17 pmAlso will the interactive panels reappear in some form (not tied to a special player class?). The classes are in steeldawn.u again for reference. Originally made for awgd.
I did ask Yrex to handle the interactive panels' issue but I don't know whether we'll use this code or Qtit's usable-screen code. The decision isn't yet made, Yrex has been given Qtit's US to compare and he'll tell me which is better to handle to achieve the result quickly and reliably. I did give him an idea for a puzzle requiring the interface.
Leo T_C_K wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:17 pmEDIT: Also are you going to make a moddb page for this? yrex still should have an account there
Given the pace this is progressing... I don't know if it's sensible to waste time for moddb pages right now. AFTER it's done, definitely, but for now... I think there is no need.

Also, I have received e-mail from Jack Honda yesterday, I will respond to him on Monday proper. For the time being, I am a bit on the busy side over the weekend.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

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Alright that's good. Well alcapowned's version is close in shape but its still predator and not that creature however it could be used as a base.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

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I can't use unrealed now obviously or anything, but there were still some things I remember. The old lavaplant versions have different texturing in the reactor's room lower area and like I said the small cave tunnels had tarydium crystals, later when the lava appeared on the ground there they removed them and so did those temple pieces at the outside lift/bridge area which could serve as something to connect the two sides permanently after player crosses (better for coop).

Either way, I remember river ruins having some additional detail cut even though the latest version is otherwise superior. I wanted to propose adding back next to the current monk statue (not too near though) the old stuff from the square too as it had water and stuff at the square. There were also all kind of small niches cut from the archways (possibly for torches/candles).

One thing that was replaced also was that lava cave corridor with that bridge one and that small secret, but this lava cave could be added instead to the end of the map where it would go towards lavaplant (makes sense after all). So please keep that in mind. . Those are the most important changes I can think of from the regular unfinished maps.

That dampener key in the stronghold though, I propose adding either a real key item that gets respawned by coop or adding a trigger/mover combination so that it can't happen that player having dampener already won't get it/trigger the door unlock.

For the stronghold map I had planned that player would actually have something like speed boots or a boost that would help him traverse some corridors faster or a hoverboard. That's because it takes ages inside the complex to get from point a to b and a lot of rooms were empty and in need of overall improvement. I absolutely like the concept of that map it just is no fun on replay and is quite slow and tedious at parts. Please keep this suggestion in mind. The UC hoverbike could even be used or something..there was another idea i had in mind but I forgot.

One last question though, will the extra/additional maps that were planned/not for inclusion also make appearance? Like there were more DM maps(even the variants of dm1 are different in layout and there was that dmtown or how it was called and even dmflux started as SD map but released separately from it).
Plus that ladder test map from joe wilcox that has enough details to pass for actual map. Could Vegra be bridged with this map or keep it for DM?
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

I talked to Joe Wilcox about the mininuke, he said it wasn't a leftover from AWGD or anything because there wasn't any nuke implemented or planned.

So it was entirely a SD thing.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Sorry for so many posts in a row, would have edited my last post if possible, but I did want to add a suggestion of a mutator with skin replacement that would replace the automag hand skin if you play as brandon. This mutator could be tied to a gametype that the maps could use too or used separately. Basically something like the hd skins mutator except to replace the glove with brandon's hand skin. But its up to you whether you do that or not. It might not be a big deal to warrant this and already many unreal guns from past/present broke this. As in the quadshot has visibly a thumb/ungloved hand and early automag has different glove than the final one and there's yet different glove on the translocator mesh originally. Yea those weapons never got used in the release version and arguably the translocator would get used by a different character in whatever they planned for the shareware/retail version split maps, but still its like they only stuck to the neutral glove thing past unreal release and at developement of botpack.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Victor Delacroix »

I did browse through the older versions of the maps, noting differences and spamming the ever-living-undead-bejeezus out of Yrex with those. I think nothing will be lost.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

Alright.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Victor Delacroix »

Thanks to Yrex' dedication, we're just two SP maps away from the first alpha milestone. Some more recent shots can be seen below.

Level 3: River Ruins

Image
Image

Level 4: Lava Plant

Image

Level 5: Mountain Stronghold

Image
Image
Image

Level 6: Starport / Comm Center

Image

Overall, levels 3-8 are Alpha-1-Milestone ready. This huge progress wouldn't be possible without Yrex, Leo(T.C.K.), PaperCoffee and Rikia. Let us take a moment to appreciate their work!
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

That redeemer look still bothers me though and keeps reminding me of exu with similarly scaled "pocket deemer" (I'm still convinced that making it a peacemaker meshed item to be used with the grenade launcher would have been better). Somehow I liked Rikia's basic skin more than the one in the new screenshot, or is that just a variant? Yea I seem to start always with what bothers me first. There are other things that bother me though and that is when someone just deletes my post without informing me, even though the post might have a point or more content.

I suppose the same might happen to this one because I just referenced it didn't I? What do I know?

I certainly do not feel appreciated the way some people treat me, despite what you just posted Delacroix, but ok. I wish I could be more positive now.

The maps/improvements look great, will the lava plant "temple bits" at each part of that lava pool get some proper use?

Also the puzzle bit, is that using the modified original script or is that new or some hybrid? I believe you hinted you might use some other script, so what was decided on in the end?
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Victor Delacroix »

I will ask Yrex what he used in detail, but I suspect he finished up what was provided for SD originally. As for the puzzle itself, you can most likely guess what kind of a puzzle it is.

As for the temple bits in LavaPlant, no, they won't get expanded. The idea is that whatever was in previous level... bits and pieces of something even older may have been unearthed nearby (such as the small remainder of construction at the other side of this lava pool) but that doesn't get to be explored at this time. Maybe in another project set on Io that would make sense to explore it... either set prior to SD, or way after it, but that's a conversation for another day entirely.

The deemer is powerful enough to be considered a superweapon, so it will likely be officially provided as a secret, and its rockets be available very scarcely, as otherwise it would be just too easy to cheese through the levels.

The original initial skin will be kept archived, worry not.

For now, the focus is to finish the construction of the SP campaign and the attached DM levels, then we'll focus on implementing the story proper and run a test.

After that test, if nothing fails, a release follows. While at Yrex' current pace most of the content will likely be ready before the end of the year, I'll likely have to wait for a bit or two for just a moment longer.

No worries... we've got time.
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Re: Steele Dawn - the Lost Expansion pack - uncovered

Post by Leo T_C_K »

yea...wish I could say i've got all the time myself too *cough*
like I worry each time can I make it to the end of next week, will this or this happen? its taking a toll on me

As for lavaplant, well i meant to make use of that at least for co-op so that some mechanism/shortcut would get triggered with it like a bridge raising from both ends or something so that players wouldn't need to keep using the lift (like when there was that energy bridge in the "psx" version). Except this wouldn't be an energy bridge, at least I planned something more mechanical and solid this time. That's what i meant, not really in story explanations....

EDIT: The planned mininuke was also meant to be used very scarcedly from what I gathered. Just that it was obviously meant to be implemented as alt. eightball ammo but since the f3 gl...okay i won't be repeating myself lol.
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