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UT 227i/j compatibility

UT now belongs to the "old" Unreal as well. Supporting it for OpenGL and Sound its time to put up a board now.

Moderator: Buggie

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Psychomorph
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UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by Psychomorph »

Unreal patch 227i/j are known not to be compatible with UT. Are there plans for a UT patch with same features for 227i/j compatibility? Technically these are the same engine, is there a reason no such patch exists for UT?
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[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by []KAOS[]Casey »

Psychomorph wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:52 pm Technically these are the same engine, is there a reason no such patch exists for UT?
UT and Unreal 1 are also not really truly compatible to begin with. They are close, but not quite.

real reason: contract wording is more strict for 469 when involving feature additions. Anth etc can chime in but I am pretty sure the wording is basically "thou shalt only bugfix"
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Psychomorph
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by Psychomorph »

[]KAOS[]Casey wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:03 am
Psychomorph wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:52 pm Technically these are the same engine, is there a reason no such patch exists for UT?
UT and Unreal 1 are also not really truly compatible to begin with. They are close, but not quite.

real reason: contract wording is more strict for 469 when involving feature additions. Anth etc can chime in but I am pretty sure the wording is basically "thou shalt only bugfix"
We used to be able to play any Unreal content through UT+mods, so it seemed compatible enough throughout the years (at least backwards compatible, UT down to U). I don't quite understand the second part.

It is a shame that both communities are now practically separated, because any new content for Unreal has the potential to be Unreal exclusive at that point and as a UT mod + Unreal missions player this stuff is no longer viable.

Let's hope there's a chance for a compatibility patch for UT at some point.
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tlk
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by tlk »

Psychomorph wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:54 pm
[]KAOS[]Casey wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:03 am
Psychomorph wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:52 pm Technically these are the same engine, is there a reason no such patch exists for UT?
UT and Unreal 1 are also not really truly compatible to begin with. They are close, but not quite.

real reason: contract wording is more strict for 469 when involving feature additions. Anth etc can chime in but I am pretty sure the wording is basically "thou shalt only bugfix"
We used to be able to play any Unreal content through UT+mods, so it seemed compatible enough throughout the years (at least backwards compatible, UT down to U). I don't quite understand the second part.

It is a shame that both communities are now practically separated, because any new content for Unreal has the potential to be Unreal exclusive at that point and as a UT mod + Unreal missions player this stuff is no longer viable.

Let's hope there's a chance for a compatibility patch for UT at some point.
doubt you understand what you're talking about

the engine might be the same but bringing it to a common base is a lot of work

the fact that there are hacks enabling playing Unreal via a UT installation (and for a time it was the only way one could do it say on Linux) only proves that well it's just hacks
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Psychomorph
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by Psychomorph »

tlk wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:02 pm
Psychomorph wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:54 pm
[]KAOS[]Casey wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:03 am
UT and Unreal 1 are also not really truly compatible to begin with. They are close, but not quite.

real reason: contract wording is more strict for 469 when involving feature additions. Anth etc can chime in but I am pretty sure the wording is basically "thou shalt only bugfix"
We used to be able to play any Unreal content through UT+mods, so it seemed compatible enough throughout the years (at least backwards compatible, UT down to U). I don't quite understand the second part.

It is a shame that both communities are now practically separated, because any new content for Unreal has the potential to be Unreal exclusive at that point and as a UT mod + Unreal missions player this stuff is no longer viable.

Let's hope there's a chance for a compatibility patch for UT at some point.
doubt you understand what you're talking about

the engine might be the same but bringing it to a common base is a lot of work

the fact that there are hacks enabling playing Unreal via a UT installation (and for a time it was the only way one could do it say on Linux) only proves that well it's just hacks
I don't understand what I'm talking about, I only judge based on the reality I know, namely that it used to work prior for a long time. If you claim that it is absolutely impossible, than I have to trust it is the case.

I only wish people would voice more support for the idea regardless, so that maybe the community working out those unofficial patches would consider looking into it.
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tlk
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by tlk »

Psychomorph wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:24 pm
tlk wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:02 pm
Psychomorph wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:54 pm

We used to be able to play any Unreal content through UT+mods, so it seemed compatible enough throughout the years (at least backwards compatible, UT down to U). I don't quite understand the second part.

It is a shame that both communities are now practically separated, because any new content for Unreal has the potential to be Unreal exclusive at that point and as a UT mod + Unreal missions player this stuff is no longer viable.

Let's hope there's a chance for a compatibility patch for UT at some point.
doubt you understand what you're talking about

the engine might be the same but bringing it to a common base is a lot of work

the fact that there are hacks enabling playing Unreal via a UT installation (and for a time it was the only way one could do it say on Linux) only proves that well it's just hacks
I don't understand what I'm talking about, I only judge based on the reality I know, namely that it used to work prior for a long time. If you claim that it is absolutely impossible, than I have to trust it is the case.

I only wish people would voice more support for the idea regardless, so that maybe the community working out those unofficial patches would consider looking into it.
Ofc it works due to the resources and scripts being in the same format.

Ofc porting to a single codebase is in theory a good thing to do.

BUT seeing how the current patch is taking so long that probably babies been born and raised since the last release, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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anth
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by anth »

Realistically, this is never going to happen:

* Making 469 compatible with 227i/j would require porting over hundreds (if not thousands) of new classes, functions, and features.
* It would permanently break network compatibility with earlier clients (i.e., any 469 server that uses the new features would at the very least reject connections from older clients and in some cases even downright crash them).
* It would break compatibility with native mods that we have been able to retain compatibility with so far (ACE, Demo Manager, older renderers and audio devices).
* It might alter the behavior of existing 400-451 mods and so every feature we port over would need to be modified so it's disabled by default.

Even without our agreement with Epic, we would never want to make such sweeping changes to UT.
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Psychomorph
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by Psychomorph »

anth wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:35 am Realistically, this is never going to happen:

* Making 469 compatible with 227i/j would require porting over hundreds (if not thousands) of new classes, functions, and features.
* It would permanently break network compatibility with earlier clients (i.e., any 469 server that uses the new features would at the very least reject connections from older clients and in some cases even downright crash them).
* It would break compatibility with native mods that we have been able to retain compatibility with so far (ACE, Demo Manager, older renderers and audio devices).
* It might alter the behavior of existing 400-451 mods and so every feature we port over would need to be modified so it's disabled by default.

Even without our agreement with Epic, we would never want to make such sweeping changes to UT.
Thank you for the clarification. It marks the end of an era then.

Of course, I'm thankful that these improvements are being made for Unreal, I just hoped I could enjoy them in Infiltration UT Co-op that I've been persistently playing with my buddies for the past 16 years.
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tlk
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by tlk »

Psychomorph wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:35 pm
anth wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:35 am Realistically, this is never going to happen:

* Making 469 compatible with 227i/j would require porting over hundreds (if not thousands) of new classes, functions, and features.
* It would permanently break network compatibility with earlier clients (i.e., any 469 server that uses the new features would at the very least reject connections from older clients and in some cases even downright crash them).
* It would break compatibility with native mods that we have been able to retain compatibility with so far (ACE, Demo Manager, older renderers and audio devices).
* It might alter the behavior of existing 400-451 mods and so every feature we port over would need to be modified so it's disabled by default.

Even without our agreement with Epic, we would never want to make such sweeping changes to UT.
Thank you for the clarification. It marks the end of an era then.

Of course, I'm thankful that these improvements are being made for Unreal, I just hoped I could enjoy them in Infiltration UT Co-op that I've been persistently playing with my buddies for the past 16 years.
Uhm... You are aware that UT has it's own patch going for it now? The 469 one.
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Kajgue
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Re: UT 227i/j compatibility

Post by Kajgue »

Psychomorph wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:54 pm
[]KAOS[]Casey wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:03 am
Psychomorph wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:52 pm Technically these are the same engine, is there a reason no such patch exists for UT?
UT and Unreal 1 are also not really truly compatible to begin with. They are close, but not quite.

real reason: contract wording is more strict for 469 when involving feature additions. Anth etc can chime in but I am pretty sure the wording is basically "thou shalt only bugfix"
We used to be able to play any Unreal content through UT+mods, so it seemed compatible enough throughout the years (at least backwards compatible, UT down to U). I don't quite understand the second part.

It is a shame that both communities are now practically separated, because any new content for Unreal has the potential to be Unreal exclusive at that point and as a UT mod + Unreal missions player this stuff is no longer viable.

Let's hope there's a chance for a compatibility patch for UT at some point.

It was exactly the same before though; when singleplayer mods were blocked behind being UT exclusive, I don't think there's sadly ever been a point where the Unreal community and it's multiplayer component <-> the UT community were ever really playing side by side when not running the same title.
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