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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed? (Read 1404 times)
Masterkent
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GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Dec 18th, 2016 at 12:09pm
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Many players noticed that a GiantGasBag often starts fights with its own children. This looks like an oversight - Epic might forgot to add something like

Code
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function eAttitude AttitudeToCreature(Pawn Other)
{
	if (Other.IsA('GasBag'))
		return ATTITUDE_Friendly;
	else
		return ATTITUDE_Ignore;
} 


to UnrealI.GasBag (many other base classes use a similar function to prevent fights between different kinds of Skaarjes, Kralls, Brutes, Mercenaries, etc).

Should we consider the existing behavior a feature or should this finally be fixed?
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #1 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 12:14pm
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definitely a fixit for me.
  

Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
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Masterkent
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #2 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 12:25pm
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I'd prefer to have it fixed too.
  
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #3 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 1:06pm
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Except that for me this simply made me use certain strategies and let them fight each other if pissed. It might be a misfeature but changing it might upset some situations where this was intentional by other mappers perhaps.
  

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Skywolf
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #4 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 2:31pm
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Maybe you can make it so you can turn it off for mapper then. Would still break maps which wont be updated though. And new maps can probably just use modified code to restore the original behavior.
  

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han
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #5 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 2:45pm
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My impression always was that it was part of the gameplay and no bug.

Also it's to obviously to have gone unnoticed.
  

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Leo T_C_K
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #6 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 4:14pm
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Skywolf wrote on Dec 18th, 2016 at 2:31pm:
Maybe you can make it so you can turn it off for mapper then. Would still break maps which wont be updated though. And new maps can probably just use modified code to restore the original behavior.

That sounds awful. Rather make it the other way around or some global variable to turn on this gasbag behavior by choice?
  

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[]KAOS[]Casey
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #7 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 12:00am
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There is actually a creature I have on my server where balance was applied specfically because of the in-fighting

a "Fukin Huge gasbag" spawns giant gasbags, which spawn gasbags

If they DONT infight, then you get overwhelmed by the fukin huge gasbag


I didn't create this monster, but "working as intended" as exampled by skaarj berserker.
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #8 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 8:49am
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Nah, no way yet another switch. We have so many of these already no one is really having an overview anymore, one learning all this already has to study all the exceptions we have.
I personally always hated this behavior because it makes no sense, no matter if you call it now offspring or helper or whatever its supposed to be, no creature would spawn that in order to get attacked by it then.
It doesn't happen very often so I also kept forgetting about it instead of having it already fixed years ago.
Of course, fixing it makes things more difficult, but- honestly, Unreal ain't such a difficult game to have to rely on bugs to get through.
If people really insist on not fixing it, so be it, but I would be happy to get rid of it.
  

Sometimes you have to lose a fight to win the war.
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Masterkent
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #9 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 9:19am
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In the recent discussion Things you dislike but nobody else seems to care about on unrealsp.org, two people mentioned that they dislike the current behavior of GiantGasBags and their children. I expected that opinions on this subject may split, so this thread is more a question if the existing implementation should be changed than a request to change it.
  
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Masterkent
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #10 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 10:08am
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Skywolf wrote on Dec 18th, 2016 at 2:31pm:
Maybe you can make it so you can turn it off for mapper then.

That would be easy to do:

Code
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var() bool bFriendlyToAllGasBagClasses;

....

function EAttitude AttitudeToCreature(Pawn Other)
{
	if (Other.Class == Class ||
		bFriendlyToAllGasBagClasses && GasBag(Other) != none && GasBag(Other).bFriendlyToAllGasBagClasses)
	{
		return ATTITUDE_Friendly;
	}
	else
		return ATTITUDE_Ignore;
}

....

defaultproperties
{
	....
	bFriendlyToAllGasBagClasses=True
} 

  
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #11 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 1:23pm
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My opinion: By default, leave it as is, but add a bool so mappers can optionally change that.

Why?
1. Because it would be changing the gameplay and making it harder. Not that GiantGasbags are hard to fight, but I'm thinking more about potential custom maps.
2. I find it funny to watch them fighting.
  
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Leo T_C_K
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #12 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 2:29pm
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yrex wrote on Dec 19th, 2016 at 1:23pm:
My opinion: By default, leave it as is, but add a bool so mappers can optionally change that.

Why?
1. Because it would be changing the gameplay and making it harder. Not that GiantGasbags are hard to fight, but I'm thinking more about potential custom maps.
2. I find it funny to watch them fighting.

I absolutely agree with this. It became so common. If it was a first patch after Unreal release, perhaps then, but the behavior is concistent with UT and all too. It never got changed further on.
  

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Masterkent
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 3:10pm
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yrex wrote on Dec 19th, 2016 at 1:23pm:
My opinion: By default, leave it as is, but add a bool so mappers can optionally change that.

At least, I could use such a flag in UGoldFix (otherwise I don't see any ways to implement a proper fix other than by something like checking and adjusting Enemy of each GasBag on every tick).
  
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Skywolf
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Re: GasBag vs GiantGasBag fights - should this be fixed?
Reply #14 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 6:19pm
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I'm for Yrex's approach. You can always just use a mutator to change it if you want to have it in other levels.
  

I hate it when people ask me what my favorite game is. Just try to explain you're not talking about Unreal Tournament Roll Eyes.
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