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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Squid is broken (Read 1545 times)
Smirftsch
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #15 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:45am
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Masterkent wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:29am:
Smirftsch wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 8:59am:
I think the idea of all this should be obvious, water is not exactly the zone in which flames appear usually, although surely possible in some ways.

And an explosion is one of such cases when a fire can appear underwater.

Yes, can, but mustn't be. I found bubbles a refreshing alternative there.

Masterkent wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:29am:
Smirftsch wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 8:59am:
[quote]Smoke however makes no sense at all underwater, in sense of smoke at least not ink.

In general, only the spawner can decide what the spawned "cloud" is supposed to be - a smoke, an ink, a turbid water, etc. So, the spawner should be responsible for checking bWaterZone when such a check is necessary.

agreed.
  

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Masterkent
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #16 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 11:57am
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Smirftsch wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:45am:
Yes, can, but mustn't be. I found bubbles a refreshing alternative there.

A few small bubbles with no any flashing... IRL, explosions of petards look more impressive than that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjFbWAYtuHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKOJpYDPU8

IMO, that's more modding the game than fixing a bug in it, and I personally prefer the original variant (flame + flashing).
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #17 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 3:13pm
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either way, smoke underwater is nonsense and should be considered a bug, despite that an explosion makes some dirty water looking remotely like smoke. Maybe this would require an entirely new class for this or something and should be left for some mods though.
But other effects shouldn't produce smoke under water either way imo.
Changed it so that it just spawns some bubbles additionally for now.

  

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Masterkent
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #18 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 4:16pm
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Smirftsch wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 3:13pm:
Changed it so that it just spawns some bubbles additionally for now.

How about flame and lighting? Maybe reduced DrawScale and limited LifeSpan could make an underwater explosion effect look more realistic, but total absence of any light makes an explosion look really weird.
  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #19 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 5:24pm
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give it some tries if you want and tell me if you find a convincing solution, I am always happy about such improvements you know Smiley
  

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Masterkent
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #20 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 9:28am
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Smirftsch wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 5:24pm:
give it some tries if you want and tell me if you find a convincing solution, I am always happy about such improvements you know Smiley

For me a convincing solution would be not touching the 226b implementation other than by excluding the presence of smoke in water zones. There are a lot of possible ways to change underwater flame effects, and whatever variant I choose, I won't be able to prove that it's better than others (for example, if I choose LifeSpan=0.2, someone could ask - why not 0.1 or 0.3?) - which is a sign of that I would actually going to do some creative work. I don't like to take a responsibility for defining how the game should look like and not be able to explain why it should look exactly as I defined.

What I can easily argue is that some flame and lighting should be observable. IRL, an explosion produces a lot of very hot gas that cannot immediately disappear underwater. It forms bubbles that cannot be instantly cooled by cold water, because the water can cool them only on the border between the gas and the water. So a bubble can remain hot and emit light for a relatively long time. Real videos confirm the theoretical part - f.e. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baKdHa5TlYM.

Removing explosion's flame doesn't really look like a bug-fix; it more looks like replacing one issue with a possibly worse issue. Besides, the change wasn't applied consistently (explosions of other projectiles look the same as before). So, my preference is:
- revert the change in function UnrealI.FlakShell.Explode (optionally add spawning of bubbles);
- define UnrealShare.FlameExplosion.PostBeginPlay as indicated below:

Code
Select All
simulated function PostBeginPlay()
{
	local Actor a;

	if ( Level.NetMode != NM_DedicatedServer )
	{
		if( !Level.bHighDetailMode || Level.bDropDetail )
			Drawscale = 1.4;
		else if (!Region.Zone.bWaterZone)
		{
			a = Spawn(class'ShortSmokeGen');
			if (a!=none)
				a.RemoteRole = ROLE_None;
		}
	}
	if ( Level.NetMode!=NM_Client )
		MakeSound();
} 

  
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Smirftsch
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #21 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 10:22am
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Masterkent wrote on Jun 6th, 2016 at 9:28am:
- revert the change in function UnrealI.FlakShell.Explode (optionally add spawning of bubbles);

That I already did as said above?

  

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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #22 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 11:16am
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...and changed FlameExplosion as suggested Smiley
  

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Leo T_C_K
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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #23 - Jun 8th, 2016 at 6:21am
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That said, the same thing could be said about the stinger having bubbled underwater, it makes sense for stinger to have bubbles perhaps only when you fire it from above to the water. Why? Because it opushes the air with it INTO the water. But inside the water it makes less sense. I found out that what I once considred a bug in Unreal 2 actually wasn't a bug and that they did some of the stuff on purpose as air pushing. I don't think it was that thought of in Unreal but still.
  

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Re: Squid is broken
Reply #24 - Jun 8th, 2016 at 9:37am
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Well, it could be some air trapped inside gun. Or resulting from the little explosions that push the projectiles from the gun. Or it could be even gas coming from the projectiles themselves which keeps them flying...
  
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