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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Player model with blender? (Read 7603 times)
Giorgio_B
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Player model with blender?
Apr 2nd, 2013 at 8:48pm
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If I make a model with blender, can I import it in UnrealEd?
And how can I make it a player pawn?
  
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iLikeTheUDK
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #1 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 9:59am
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Is it going to be a skeletal mesh or a vertex mesh?
  
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Giorgio_B
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #2 - Apr 6th, 2013 at 6:17pm
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I don't know,,, I never did anything like this.
That's because I'm asking.
Generally, what should I do?
And what's the difference between vertex and skeletal?
  
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mcfarrel
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #3 - Apr 10th, 2013 at 8:24am
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Skeletal is newer technology, vertex is older.

In breef vertex animation file stores location of vertices per each animation frame. It also has the limitation of size of a model (inside cube of side 256UU , -128 to +128), and limitation of precission of vertax placing and thus some dynamic distortion of animation which is more likely been seen on model of high detail and where vertices are closer to one another.
There is no bone system included in this animation type container(s) in Unreal

On the other hand Skeletal animation uses skeleton (bone system) rigged to  to Your mesh (armature in blender). This skeleton is already part of the skeletal animation and skeletal mesh file.

You are not limited by some mesh bounding box (or at least I did not found any, might be something really huge not to bother with), nor vertex placement precision as in case of vertex animation.

So You can easily use several models with SAME skeleton using one animation set.

The same skeleton is mandatory! The behaviour of PSK/PSA (skeletal files) differs from BVH animation files and PSA (animation) stores not only relative positions of bones but rather absolute, including scaling. SO if You use PSA file on skeleton with same skeleton with has different scaling of bones it assumes scaling from PSA instead of PSK (mesh file)!!!

If the core supports skeletal import then use it instead of vertex.

As far as I can remember there is tool for exporting PSK and PSA files out of blender (python script of some kind). But do not have any personal experience with it honestly (I am 3dsmax modeller so far)

So if You would like to create (relatively) high polygonal mesh it is generally wise to stick to the skeletal animations.
  
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Turboman.
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #4 - Apr 11th, 2013 at 10:27pm
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Much like vertex models, there is a precision limitation with skeletal models though, and that is that unreal supports a maximum of 2-3 influences. anything more will be degraded and cause improper deforming and wobbly silliness as well.

For character models skeletal animation appears to be the way to go for reasons mentioned above me. It's more practical to work with plus you can take the epic skeletons, slap your model onto those and save plenty of time on animating.

But there are instances when you want to avoid skeletal animations at all costs and go vertex. This would be in cases where your model requires lots of deformations, which cannot be performed very well using skeletal animation due to its rigid nature (unless you want to use a shitload of IK solvers/assign controllers, and even then most of those don't work in unreal).
  
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mcfarrel
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #5 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:00am
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Thanks for further info Turboman. I did forgot to mention influence limit of skeletal animations.

From my point of view the usage of Epicskeleton has its advantages as You wrote, but drawbacks as well when You need some specific animations.

When You need additional animations it is better to start new animfile.

BTW I think Giorgio_B would need some additional informations. Like show him some models and issues of vertex and skeletal approach on these. I am uncertain if he is capable fully understand what we are discussing here...
  
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Giorgio_B
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #6 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 1:18pm
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Well, so I can do it using blender.
And in addition to the model I have to make the animations using the skeletal system wich is better then vertex right?
I think I should look for more information before
  
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iLikeTheUDK
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #7 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 2:51pm
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Giorgio_B wrote on Apr 15th, 2013 at 1:18pm:
...the skeletal system (which) is better then vertex right?

Well, for animation of characters and most other mesh objects, yes, but as mentioned above, when you need complex deformations that skeletal animation is a f***ing hell to use for (for example the BioRifle's projectile), you're really better off with per-vertex animation.
  
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mcfarrel
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #8 - Apr 16th, 2013 at 9:29am
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Giorgio_B wrote on Apr 15th, 2013 at 1:18pm:
Well, so I can do it using blender.
And in addition to the model I have to make the animations using the skeletal system which is better then vertex right?
I think I should look for more information before


In case of player (bot, scripted pawn) model. You will use bones (armature) to animate walking, running, shooting, poses and postures.
If Your character is more or less human like or animal like You use armature and inverse kinematics to simulate limb and other body parts behaviour.

Complete animation(s) You can export both as a vertex animation or skeletal animation. Using skeletal animation is useful when dealing with anatomically normal characters (include those having additional limbs like Nalis, wings like Warlords, or have decreased number of limbs like nalicows and predators).

Vertex animation is useful when dealing with animations not easily simulated by bonesystem. These were used as writen above to simulate pseudo-physical behaviour of bio blob for example.

When using vertex animation, Your model in blender need not to be fully rigged. You can operate parts of Your model just by moving its vertices around to do the animation.

When using skeletal animation however You are not allowed to do simple positioning of vertices by itself. every piece of your model must be rigged onto armature. You simply can not move just few vertices to do some animation. This You can do in blender, but the repositioning of vertices will not be exported to PSK/PSA becuase such operation is unknown to the skeletal animation standard!

BTW by the word complex deformation in no way behaviour of complexly modeled limbs and body are mentioned!.

For simple decision wheteher or not to use a skeletal animation You should ask a simple question:

"Does the creature (or object) has bones for real?"

If answer is YES (as in case of animals, humans, humanoids) then use the skeletal animation.
If answer is NO (as in case of cloth, blobs and so) then use vertex animation instead.


I know the question above is not exactly correct, but At least something to start at first.

BTW how experienced You are in 3d modelling and animations? I am just curious. I am giving You advice and I suppose (automatically) You have some experience in animation. In case You do not understand fully about what shit I am blabbering here just stop me...
  
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Turboman.
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #9 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 8:01am
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one thing to add to what mcfarrel mentioned:
You can always model a skeletal model, then convert it to a vertex model afterwards if you want to, this process cannot be done the other way around... vertex models will stay vertex models.
  
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iLikeTheUDK
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #10 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 9:43am
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Turboman. wrote on Apr 17th, 2013 at 8:01am:
one thing to add to what mcfarrel mentioned:
You can always model a skeletal model, then convert it to a vertex model afterwards if you want to, this process cannot be done the other way around... vertex models will stay vertex models.


Unless, probably, you just take one of the vertex mesh's key frames as a single, unanimated mesh, rig it with a skeleton, and animate it.
  
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mcfarrel
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #11 - Apr 17th, 2013 at 2:03pm
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Correct. Turboman probably mentioned You can export skeleton rigged mesh as vertex animation on the fly.

But in reverse You have to rig vertex animated mesh first to create skeletal. This is as You write.

Anyway in these new posts we do not add anything of use to Giorgio_B.
  
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Giorgio_B
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #12 - May 10th, 2013 at 3:11pm
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Thank you very much to all of you
  
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iLikeTheUDK
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Re: Player model with blender?
Reply #13 - May 10th, 2013 at 5:10pm
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mcfarrel wrote on Apr 17th, 2013 at 2:03pm:
Anyway in these new posts we do not add anything of use to Giorgio_B.

Giorgio_B wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 3:11pm:
Thank you very much to all of you

Apparently there was something of use for him.
  
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