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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Explosions, coronas, etc..... (Read 5563 times)
-Shadow-
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Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Jan 4th, 2010 at 6:31am
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When I use the D3D9 or OpenGL renderer, I notice that there always seems to be some sort of box around coronas, explosions; especially when seen in the dark. There are also other things, such as the sun seen in some skyboxes, as well as the Mario in the ending credits of Operation Na Pali.
Does anyone know if there are settings on these renderers so that the boxes are not visible around these?

I noticed that the D3D Renderer seems to use these just fine: no box border things. Howver, D3D doesn't seem to support S3TC Textures! Is there a way to force this renderer to be able to use these textures?
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #1 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 3:12pm
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I don't think the old D3D can render S3TC textures, that's why there are newer ones.

As for the box around coronas thing, it would be helpful if you included a screenshot or two, cause like this I don't know what you mean (haven't noticed anything myself).
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #2 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 7:18pm
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ok, I'm a true noob: How do you insert a screenshot? I already took shots of these, but I don't know how to insert them into here....
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #3 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 7:26pm
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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #4 - Jan 5th, 2010 at 4:10am
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hey. sorry for the delayed response.

I don't have enough time right at this moment to post some pics, but I just now thought of this: I didn't update the driver!!!!
I'm gonna give this a try tomorrow in the afternoon and see if it works. If not, then I will try to post some pics showing these box thingies.

Meanwhile, look at this video of the ONP credits, and take note of David's face when the switch is stepped on. The animation on his face is normal in the video, but on my renderer, it has a large black box around it. The same goes for the Mario mover going into the pipe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxRiYRsEdP4
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #5 - Jan 5th, 2010 at 10:03am
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-Shadow- wrote on Jan 5th, 2010 at 4:10am:
hey. sorry for the delayed response.

I don't have enough time right at this moment to post some pics, but I just now thought of this: I didn't update the driver!!!!
I'm gonna give this a try tomorrow in the afternoon and see if it works. If not, then I will try to post some pics showing these box thingies.

Meanwhile, look at this video of the ONP credits, and take note of David's face when the switch is stepped on. The animation on his face is normal in the video, but on my renderer, it has a large black box around it. The same goes for the Mario mover going into the pipe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxRiYRsEdP4



Disable "UseS3TC" if you're using D3D9\OpenGL.
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #6 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 12:06pm
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oh ok it works now, but I would really love to use the S3TC textures on this game. Is there a way to be able to use these with the "Use S3TC Textures" option turned off?
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #7 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 3:05pm
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-Shadow- wrote on Jan 6th, 2010 at 12:06pm:
oh ok it works now, but I would really love to use the S3TC textures on this game. Is there a way to be able to use these with the "Use S3TC Textures" option turned off?


No there isn't, and the masking problem will not go away unless you disable "UseS3TC", it's been bugged from the start, and to be honest, S3TC was designed for Savage 4 cards at the time.. (obviously)

This bug could of been resolved if people would STOP importing 24-bit BMP's as regular textures... I mean what the hell, have you not heard of demoting them to 256-colour before importing..? Christ..
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #8 - Jan 25th, 2010 at 11:16am
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The corona texture GenFX.LensFlar.3 has a problem in that the supposed to be transparent background area was filled with RGB (1,1,1) instead of (0,0,0).  This will sometimes add a faint box around it that can be fairly easily noticed in some cases.  However this may never be able to show up at all depending on configuration and/or renderer differences.  If using 16-bit RGB textures, these 1s will get turned into 0s.  If using the Glide renderer with the x86 asm version of appFloor(), then a rounding quirk makes this one go away (it hits a broken case with the x86 asm version of appFloor() where it incorrectly subtracts one from odd integers, and then this combined with other renderer plus texture specific factors turns these 1s into 0s).
  
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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #9 - Jan 25th, 2010 at 6:47pm
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Is this also a bug in Unreal as well as UT maps? I don't remember seeing this.
  
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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #10 - Jan 25th, 2010 at 8:52pm
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Quote:
This bug could of been resolved if people would STOP importing 24-bit BMP's as regular textures... I mean what the hell, have you not heard of demoting them to 256-colour before importing..? Christ..


Ey...I find that offensive, I don't demote my works of art, I demand they use the full coloration that I've given them.
  


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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #11 - Jan 25th, 2010 at 9:08pm
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Spike wrote on Jan 25th, 2010 at 8:52pm:
Ey...I find that offensive, I don't demote my works of art, I demand they use the full coloration that I've given them.


... No offense, but do you even know what the hell you're talking about? If you invoke Bright.EXE and batch convert your textures\skins with -mips -common -pinkmask flags, they don't look any different than 24-bit BMP and they don't screw up as bad as 24-bit BMP, Unreal is DESIGNED to use 256 colour palette PCX textures... I know what the hell I'm talking about, if you don't believe me, look at the original documentation Epic had up...

Not every renderer, and 3-D card, handles 24-bit textures gracefully, and paletted textures in Unreal are more compatible, if you don't want to go for compatibility then don't come screaming to random people if your texture crashes people due to invalid formatting...
  

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Re: Explosions, coronas, etc.....
Reply #12 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 12:54pm
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I used the editor to export this texture from both Unreal Gold and UT, and they both look the same / broken.  Don't know of a specific Unreal map plus spot for this one since I usually do most things in UT.  For UT, can see problems with this texture in DM-Gothic in at least a couple places, and including with the standard D3D renderer.  The narrow hall looking into the room with the thigh pads, teleport, and a ramp on each side works well since can get the corona to overlap dark surfaces.  It's also more easily visible if using a high to excessively high gamma correction value (which will space the darker source colors further apart).

P8 textures aren't as nice in the context of recent graphics hardware support, and if want more detailed high resolution textures beyond a certain point it's usually better to use S3TC.  P8 will get converted to uncompressed RGBA in case of no hardware support (or always in case of D3D8 / D3D9 renderers since never supported in the renderer).  If have both, then P8 covers compatibility along with benefits for certain older hardware and software rendering, and S3TC covers newer while avoiding big and slow uncompressed 32-bit RGBA for large textures.  Even if no graphics hardware support, P8 can still be useful for saving RAM and disk space.  Although S3TC is lossy compression, for 2D textures can still get 2x the size in both dimensions in 1/2 the space compared to uncompressed 32-bit RGBA.

Notable hardware with paletted texture support includes Voodoo, GeForce 1-4, and GeForce FX.  Don't know of anything significant after these.  Also means not really a huge loss in not supporting in the newer D3D renderers since NVIDIA has good OpenGL drivers and have Glide for 3dfx.

Can do masked textures right with S3TC, but wasn't in a number of cases for Unreal.  The original and many subsequent versions of the OpenGL renderer with S3TC support used the RGB rather than RGBA DXT1 texture format, which makes the special cases single bit alpha support in DXT1 unavailable.  After changed this to RGBA, found out that it didn't matter for the standard UT S3TC skybox textures since the already compressed textures weren't encoded to use the single bit DXT1 alpha to mask the areas that should have been.

OpenGL ES has a new paletted texture extension, so I was wondering if P8 textures might be more useful again on the graphics hardware side if ever an embedded port, but now I'm not so sure they'll make any big comeback there either.  It sounds like common PowerVR cores like MBX and SGX don't have any native paletted texture support.  Also came across a post from someone from IMG explaining why seeing GL_OES_compressed_paletted_texture extension support doesn't necessarily mean fast and hardware support, as it said OpenGL ES 1.1 required supporting this extension (but in case of no hardware support, driver can convert to RGBA).  This doesn't however mean entirely useless, as can still save space elsewhere and then each application doesn't have to deal with detecting feature support and possibly converting textures before pass to the graphics API.  Still have to be aware of potentially large differences / increases in texture memory usage though.
  
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